Bear & Moose Whacker Upper

[Meketrefe]

Looks promising. dirty looking round right there.

How come the 6.5 mag? No 6.8 anymore?

You can use 6.8 mags too. Also 7.62x39 mags. With the pistol bullets might need some work
to make the hollow points more reliable feeding. But the affordable 9mm FMJs in 124gr or 147gr/150gr feed like a charm.
And one now can hunt deer with pistol bullets and a 10" pistol upper. I cannot wait to see what this thing does with
the longer barrel. This is amazing.
225gr smk has a 417 power factor and the 250gr sp bullet a 476 power factor!!!! ...Can you freaking believe this from a 10" pistol? lol
I am going to reduce the loads so we can comfortably shoot this thing. The sound is like a 20 ga. shotgun but lots more power.

I am very happy the way this is working.

[Meketrefe]

I am always conservative and make the calculations for a new cartridge with modest values so I never get too over optimistic estimates but
in this case even with the reduced case can you believe thing thing? ....
Look at these 10" bore long values. This would make the ideal SBR with lots of freaking power.
with the big holes and the 125gr and 150gr affordable bulk bullets this is a lot of fun and will bring down a dinosaur.

[BuellSix8]

Hmmmm.... Interesting....

[Meketrefe]

Even the affordable pistol bullets move superfsst and they seem to have pretty decent accuracy. We will haved to test this but imo these fmjs they hit anything at those speeds they will explode in several frsgments and create a fist wide wound channel. This would be brutal at close quarters and leaves rounds like the 7.62x39 and the anemic blackout in the dust. This 10" pistol is a battering ram!! Lol

[Meketrefe]

Ballistics Results - 357 Gunner 10" Pistol Affordable 124gr pistol bullets - WOW!


Your Input Variables

Ballistic Coefficient	0.2	Velocity (ft/s)	2623	Weight (grains)	124
Maximum Range (yds)	300	Interval (yds)	50	Drag Function	G1
Sight Height (inches)	2.5	Shooting Angle (degrees)	0	Zero Range (yds)	150
Wind Speed (mph)	5	Wind Angle (degrees)	90	Altitude (ft)	555
Pressure (hg)	29.53	Temperature (F)	60	Humidity (%)	0.6

RANGE(YARDS)	VELOCITY(FPS)	ENERGY(FT.-LB.)	TRAJECTORY(IN)	COME UP IN MOA	COME UP IN MILS	WIND DRIFT(IN)	WIND DRIFT IN MOA	WIND DRIFT IN MILS
Muzzle	2623	1894	-2.5	0	0	0	0	0
50	2410	1599	-0.1	0.1	0	0.2	0.5	0.1
100	2207	1341	0.9	-0.8	-0.2	0.9	0.9	0.3
150	2014	1117	0	0	0	2.2	1.4	0.4
200	1832	924	-3	1.4	0.4	4	1.9	0.6
250	1661	760	-8.6	3.3	1	6.5	2.5	0.7
300	1504	623	-17.4	5.5	1.6	9.9	3.1	0.9

[BuellSix8]

3" drop at 200 yards is soli besides the 1341ftlbs at 100 yards and 2207 ft per second on a 124gr pistol bullet.

[Meketrefe]

3" drop at 200 yards is soli besides the 1341ftlbs at 100 yards and 2207 ft per second on a 124gr pistol bullet.

Yeah from a pistol not a joke right? Almost twice the power of the 44remmag Dirty Harry when you think about it.

The initial fear was that the pistol bullets were going to disintegrate at those speeds. My feeling is these pistol bullets have to explode when they hit
something with that much diameter and speed. We might have to take this to chickens range to blow up some large vegetables and put that in youtube. LOL
Lets see what happens this weekend with the carbine barrel. I hope the pistol bullets hold up at 223 remington speeds. LOL
We might have to bring the charges down a tad just to allow for bullet preservation. LOL
I never had so much fun with pistol bullets and because they are so affordable I don't feel bad pulling the trigger.
So there is a huge smile factor when shooting this bad azz caliber.

WARNING: This caliber is a lot of fun and it is contagious. lol

[Meketrefe]

The data is in!!
Today I tested this little beast with the 16" AR15 barrel !! WOW!!

Average taken from 5 shot spreads.


Ballistics Results - 357 Gunner - 124gr FMJ - 16" AR15 upper

Ballistic Coefficient	0.145	Velocity (ft/s)	2715	Weight (grains)	124
Maximum Range (yds)	300	Interval (yds)	50	Drag Function	G1
Sight Height (inches)	2.5	Shooting Angle (degrees)	0	Zero Range (yds)	150
Wind Speed (mph)	10	Wind Angle (degrees)	90	Altitude (ft)	555
Pressure (hg)	29.53	Temperature (F)	70	Humidity (%)	0.7

RANGE(YARDS)	VELOCITY(FPS)	ENERGY(FT.-LB.)	TRAJECTORY(IN)	COME UP IN MOA	COME UP IN MILS	WIND DRIFT(IN)	WIND DRIFT IN MOA	WIND DRIFT IN MILS
Muzzle	2715	2029	-2.5	0	0	0	0	0
50	2424	1617	0	0.1	0	0.6	1.2	0.3
100	2152	1275	0.9	-0.9	-0.3	2.4	2.3	0.7
150	1898	992	0	0	0	5.8	3.7	1.1
200	1664	763	-3.3	1.6	0.5	10.9	5.2	1.5
250	1456	584	-9.8	3.8	1.1	18.2	6.9	2
300	1278	449	-20.5	6.5	1.9	27.9	8.9	2.6

Ballistics Results - 357 Gunner - 147gr FMJ - 16" AR15 upper

Ballistic Coefficient	0.212	Velocity (ft/s)	2532	Weight (grains)	147
Maximum Range (yds)	300	Interval (yds)	50	Drag Function	G1
Sight Height (inches)	2.5	Shooting Angle (degrees)	0	Zero Range (yds)	150
Wind Speed (mph)	10	Wind Angle (degrees)	90	Altitude (ft)	555
Pressure (hg)	29.53	Temperature (F)	70	Humidity (%)	0.7

RANGE(YARDS)	VELOCITY(FPS)	ENERGY(FT.-LB.)	TRAJECTORY(IN)	COME UP IN MOA	COME UP IN MILS	WIND DRIFT(IN)	WIND DRIFT IN MOA	WIND DRIFT IN MILS
Muzzle	2532	2093	-2.5	0	0	0	0	0
50	2339	1785	0	-0.1	0	0.5	0.9	0.3
100	2154	1515	1	-0.9	-0.3	1.8	1.7	0.5
150	1978	1278	0	0	0	4.2	2.7	0.8
200	1812	1071	-3.2	1.5	0.4	7.7	3.7	1.1
250	1655	894	-9	3.4	1	12.5	4.8	1.4
300	1510	745	-18	5.7	1.7	18.8	6	1.7

Ballistics Results - 357 Gunner - 180gr SP - 16" AR15 upper

Ballistic Coefficient	0.248	Velocity (ft/s)	2315	Weight (grains)	180
Maximum Range (yds)	300	Interval (yds)	50	Drag Function	G1
Sight Height (inches)	2.5	Shooting Angle (degrees)	0	Zero Range (yds)	150
Wind Speed (mph)	10	Wind Angle (degrees)	90	Altitude (ft)	555
Pressure (hg)	29.53	Temperature (F)	70	Humidity (%)	0.7

RANGE(YARDS)	VELOCITY(FPS)	ENERGY(FT.-LB.)	TRAJECTORY(IN)	COME UP IN MOA	COME UP IN MILS	WIND DRIFT(IN)	WIND DRIFT IN MOA	WIND DRIFT IN MILS
Muzzle	2315	2142	-2.5	0	0	0	0	0
50	2157	1860	0.3	-0.6	-0.2	0.5	0.9	0.3
100	2006	1609	1.2	-1.2	-0.3	1.7	1.7	0.5
150	1862	1385	0	0	0	4	2.5	0.7
200	1725	1189	-3.8	1.8	0.5	7.3	3.5	1
250	1595	1017	-10.4	4	1.2	11.9	4.5	1.3
300	1475	870	-20.5	6.5	1.9	17.7	5.6	1.6

Ballistics Results - 357 Gunner - 200gr sp - 16" AR15 upper

Ballistic Coefficient	0.3	Velocity (ft/s)	2195	Weight (grains)	200
Maximum Range (yds)	300	Interval (yds)	50	Drag Function	G1
Sight Height (inches)	2.5	Shooting Angle (degrees)	0	Zero Range (yds)	150
Wind Speed (mph)	10	Wind Angle (degrees)	90	Altitude (ft)	555
Pressure (hg)	29.53	Temperature (F)	70	Humidity (%)	0.7

RANGE(YARDS)	VELOCITY(FPS)	ENERGY(FT.-LB.)	TRAJECTORY(IN)	COME UP IN MOA	COME UP IN MILS	WIND DRIFT(IN)	WIND DRIFT IN MOA	WIND DRIFT IN MILS
Muzzle	2195	2140	-2.5	0	0	0	0	0
50	2068	1899	0.5	-0.9	-0.3	0.4	0.8	0.2
100	1946	1681	1.4	-1.3	-0.4	1.5	1.5	0.4
150	1828	1484	0	0	0	3.5	2.2	0.7
200	1716	1307	-4	1.9	0.6	6.4	3.1	0.9
250	1609	1150	-10.9	4.2	1.2	10.3	3.9	1.1
300	1508	1010	-21.2	6.7	2	15.2	4.8	1.4

Ballistics Results - 357 Gunner - 250gr sp - 16" AR15 upper

Ballistic Coefficient	0.422	Velocity (ft/s)	1890	Weight (grains)	250
Maximum Range (yds)	300	Interval (yds)	50	Drag Function	G1
Sight Height (inches)	2.5	Shooting Angle (degrees)	0	Zero Range (yds)	150
Wind Speed (mph)	10	Wind Angle (degrees)	90	Altitude (ft)	555
Pressure (hg)	29.53	Temperature (F)	70	Humidity (%)	0.7

RANGE(YARDS)	VELOCITY(FPS)	ENERGY(FT.-LB.)	TRAJECTORY(IN)	COME UP IN MOA	COME UP IN MILS	WIND DRIFT(IN)	WIND DRIFT IN MOA	WIND DRIFT IN MILS
Muzzle	1890	1983	-2.5	0	0	0	0	0
50	1807	1813	1.1	-2.1	-0.6	0.4	0.7	0.2
100	1727	1656	2	-1.9	-0.6	1.3	1.3	0.4
150	1650	1512	0	0	0	3	1.9	0.6
200	1576	1379	-5.2	2.5	0.7	5.4	2.6	0.8
250	1505	1258	-13.9	5.3	1.5	8.6	3.3	1
300	1438	1147	-26.4	8.4	2.4	12.6	4	1.2

[Meketrefe]

Sierra bullets
Ballistics Results - 357 Gunner - 225gr SGK - 16" AR15 upper

Ballistic Coefficient	0.4	Velocity (ft/s)	2014	Weight (grains)	225
Maximum Range (yds)	300	Interval (yds)	50	Drag Function	G1
Sight Height (inches)	2.5	Shooting Angle (degrees)	0	Zero Range (yds)	150
Wind Speed (mph)	10	Wind Angle (degrees)	90	Altitude (ft)	555
Pressure (hg)	29.53	Temperature (F)	70	Humidity (%)	0.7

RANGE(YARDS)	VELOCITY(FPS)	ENERGY(FT.-LB.)	TRAJECTORY(IN)	COME UP IN MOA	COME UP IN MILS	WIND DRIFT(IN)	WIND DRIFT IN MOA	WIND DRIFT IN MILS
Muzzle	2014	2026	-2.5	0	0	0	0	0
50	1923	1848	0.8	-1.5	-0.4	0.4	0.7	0.2
100	1835	1683	1.7	-1.6	-0.5	1.3	1.2	0.4
150	1750	1530	0	0	0	2.9	1.9	0.5
200	1668	1390	-4.5	2.2	0.6	5.3	2.5	0.7
250	1589	1262	-12.2	4.6	1.3	8.4	3.2	0.9
300	1514	1145	-23.2	7.4	2.2	12.3	3.9	1.1

[Meketrefe]

357 art...

[Cgrutt]

Mek can you give me the cliff notes... In layman's terms. Those charts are making me dizzy. So what's up with the starfish pattern on the crown? Is that powder residue or cracks?

[Meketrefe]

Mek can you give me the cliff notes... In layman's terms. Those charts are making me dizzy. So what's up with the starfish pattern on the crown? Is that powder residue or cracks?

The bottom line is that this is almost twice the power of an AK47 at any distance and more than twice of the blackout at any distance.
It also leaves behind the popular 458 socom and it can be classified in the thumper category with bullets that go from affordable pistol value packs
to 358 caliber hunting bullets the same the 35 caliber largest calibers and magnums are using.
Plus 35 (9mm) caliber holes that are well known for making see through holes and dropping game (or whatever) on the spot.
This will also make a great car stopper round considering the amount of lead one can send with full 30 round magazines (in free states).
458 socom cannot do that. This is not internet speculation. I have designed this and I made it work and now Mr.Gunner and the others
who are in for the uppers are going to have a big smile. This should come with a warning: It is fun a hell to shoot.
the sound is like a 20 gauge shotgun but with twice the power, in rifle version and shooting much flatter.
the 147gr FMJs the same I use for pistol training are holding together and they are a blast to shoot.

the Star pattern is made by the escaping gasses as the bullet leaves the muzzle. I cut this muzzle to 11 degree target angle and finished myself.
I also lapped the barrel and the pattern is created by the grooves in the rifling that ends at the muzzle cut nice and square.
I think it smeared a bit in the range bag but otherwise it was a perfect star. This indicates a uniform pattern of the gasses and a good sign that
the bullets are leaving the muzzle cleanly and evenly. A well made target crown is a great contributor to accuracy. Accuracy is all in the consistency
form beginning to end.

Makes sense?

[Cgrutt]

Yeah so where do I sign up?

[Meketrefe]

hahaha!! window is closed. But we can reopen it for you.
I am going to create instructions on how to make the brass that is quite simple.
Neck up from 6.5 grendel hornday or lapua and then trim to 1.42 and presto!
The necking up must be done with plenty of lube and an the expander mandrel, just a bit slower than normal resizing.
Then after the above reloads are as simple as any other caliber.
The barrel and brass life should be excellent and with the advantage to be able to use affordable bulk pistol bullet deals from 9mm, 357 and 358 deparments.
This one is taking it all in. Super fun to shoot. AR15 speeds with bullets 3 to 5 times heavier and almost twice wider.

[Meketrefe]

Anyone else interested on this project?
Seriously, this is a blast to shoot and actually very practical no matter how you look at it.
One could make a 357 SIG or 9x25 dillon pistol upper that should be also fun but when it comes to raw power this is it.
Even if making a 357 magnum upper was easy (very difficult I expect) this is superior to any of the potential and current options.