AR15 Rifle - Dancing The Accuracy Tango

[Meketrefe]

It seems you would love something in the lines of a quality national match setup. the reason for the scope is to group really tight not just to score in case you want to put dime size groups
or shoot a woodchuck between the eyes at 300 yards. Aside from the fine precise aiming a quality stainless barrel with a tight chamber and perhaps a free float tube is the thicket.
If you like iron sights you could use a tube with a top rail to increase the sight radious and there are several better options than the A2 carry handle on the diopter department.
The 20" is a lot more accurate because of substantial speed gain. More speed translates into less time to target, therefore less time the bullet is exposed to drop, wind and weather. Also
a bit extra weight helps with the firearm to be more steady. At 100 yards this is not going to make a difference but as you start to move out to 300 and beyond a true rifle has the edge
over any carbine.
IMO do not need to spend a lot in brand name parts with fancy logos and sculls. But you want a good quality barrel, BCG (The heart of the AR) with a bolt matched to that chamber (tighter
tolerances) and a good trigger. The one gunsick mentioned is a great trigger. Also the 2 stage RRA or the 2 stage geissele if you want to spend a bit more. No need to spend more
on expensive housed triggers for nothing.
If you like the A2 stock consider the Magpul moe that has storage compartment, replaceable butt pad and also tapped to accept a bottom rail for a monopod or just a slider bar for
your rear bag.
I love the PRS. People say it is heavy but for me that is an advantage as it balances the rifle perfectly and fully adjustable in comb and LOP that is huge. I hate loose slider stocks
too.
So unless you want a true national match you can take that idea and then work with a few improvements. Also you can have both functional irons and a small scope for long range work.
People who do not like scopes they love the short glass like a nice ACOG that do not have so much magnification but it is like turning on a HD-TV.

If you are serious get down to it so you can start hitting something. LOL

[Chicken Shoot]

CS the best LPK I have used are CMMG. The trigger is superb compared to any other Mil spec ones I have ever used.

Hey thanks man!! Thanks for providing a link too!!! Need to change your name to dipPeshitta. LOL (I'll look that CMMGrutt thing in a few.

[GUNSICK]

Hey thanks man!! Thanks for providing a link too!!! Need to change your name to dipPeshitta. LOL (I'll look that CMMGrutt thing in a few.

Use Google you lazy mother clucker!

[WARFAB]

Something like this CS?

[GUNSICK]

Something like this CS?

You missed 3 times lol!

[Meketrefe]

chicken,
Just follow some of the ideas and general directives in this thread and use it to choosing your setup.
Don't start cutting corners on the barrel, bolts and trigger with el cheapo weekend warrior parts kits.
Also brands do not matter that much but in terms of these key parts some known makers are a good sign of quality so you will
need to leave the wallet open and then save in those areas where other people spend tons of moola for nothing.

LW is a good place to start and they have some precut that they will shorten for you to 20" and profile for a .750 or .875 gas block if you do not want
the heavier bull. ...http://www.lothar-walther.com/335.php

The bore on this barrels is amazing with tolerances in the same league as krieger for being button rifled vs. cut rifling.
The bore is like a mirror. If it was flat one could use it to shave.

Krieger will also cut you a match winning barrel if you want....
https://kriegerbarrels.com/srorder?s...n=6&cont=7#gun

I woudl go with the 7 to 8 twist. 7 twist only if you want to do 82gr berger VLDs. Otherwise 8 is fine and the standard NM.
Wylde chamber is a good compromise with extra freebore, otherwise SAAMI 223R dimensions but then not ideal with
some plinking / service ammo.

[Meketrefe]

Here you have this one in 7.7 twist and SS. already cut and ready to go...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/208...ProductFinding

This is a great bolt to go with it...
http://www.ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/3255/336

[WARFAB]

This is a great bolt to go with it...
http://www.ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/3255/336

That bolt will work with any mil-spec carrier and barrel extension? Interesting that the position of the ejector is different than mil-spec.

[Meketrefe]

That bolt will work with any mil-spec carrier and barrel extension? Interesting that the position of the ejector is different than mil-spec.

Yes they work with any carrier group and extension. The ejector plunger is the standard position so I am not sure what you mean.
The only carrier where they do not work are the Adams becasue of the tighter tolerances and these bolts are beefed up so they are the strongest
in the market right now. I have use them for years.
Their barrels are pretty good too and nitrocarburized for extra durability vs. chrome lined bores in barrels that is now old technology.

[Meketrefe]

Just to make sure the bottom one on pic is a 6.8spc bolt while the top one is a 5.56 and you cannot see the plunger cut because the angle in the picture....

[WARFAB]

Just to make sure the bottom one on pic is a 6.8spc bolt while the top one is a 5.56 and you cannot see the plunger cut because the angle in the picture..

My mistake. I thought that the 5.56 plunger wasn't recessed into the rim. I've never checked the tolerances between my bolt and barrel extension, I just know that my bolt lugs are cut square at the base and ends. Wasn't sure if that created any clearance issues with the barrel extension.

[Meketrefe]

My mistake. I thought that the 5.56 plunger wasn't recessed into the rim. I've never checked the tolerances between my bolt and barrel extension, I just know that my bolt lugs are cut square at the base and ends. Wasn't sure if that created any clearance issues with the barrel extension.

There are plenty of tolerances for increasing both the radius and the base of the lugs w/o using a custom extension. This is the case with his 7.62x39 and LBC bolts that it is actually obvious
to the naked eye w.o using a caliper. The biggest thing is that they are cut from 9310 and properly treated. I think the same alloy and treatment as gears in race cars like formula 1 that are constantly working under lots of stresses and they need to hold up. The tolerances are important but when I chamber I try to go to the extreme and also headspace from my formed brass as well to provide the tightest possible chamber but allowing the group to rotate freely still. I think by having things not properly squared might have more impact in reliability than going with a tight fit approach. After all the AR was built with the tight fit philosophy vs. the AKM and others that are loose fit. If the gun was for fitting lets say in afganistan I would probably prefer a piston and loose fit approach due to all the dust and chit the firearms are exposed to. But for surgical work I would like the firearm to be tight and clean.

The heat threatment is very important. One can start with the right material and screw it up w/o putting the proper time and dedication like those el cheapo deals from PSA, Model 1, Rguns, black hole weaponry, etc.. that are OEM and sometimes start to break bolts and other things left and right. Stoner that is the OEM for midway one had to make a recall on bolts that started to bust all over.
Since then Midway has tighten the screws of their supplier but it will be always the problem with OEM makers. One day you might get ok parts and the next you get a POS batch.
So I rather to spend a bit more and use makers who have a track record of Quality Control vs. cheap kits and awesome deals.

In other areas I do not care that much about "makers" but in the barrel and the bolt/carrier group, that is the heart of the AR as you already know.
The receivers brand is just the shell and mamy good ones for decent prices as soon as they are cut up to spec.

[Chicken Shoot]

How are Olympic Arms uppers?? Someone has a "pre ban", which I don't understand that one, original A2 upper with forward assist and door. Are they good? What's a reasonable price one would expect to pay for one? Also Meketrefefefefefe .... any advantage or disadvantage of the full 24" barrel as compared to a 20" barrel? I don't want any damn noise maker on the end of the barrel. It's .223!! Not enough kick to warrant anything on the end of the barrel. (unless of course I see some other caliber that peeks my interest.)

[WARFAB]

How are Olympic Arms uppers?? Someone has a "pre ban", which I don't understand that one, original A2 upper with forward assist and door. Are they good? What's a reasonable price one would expect to pay for one? Also Meketrefefefefefe .... any advantage or disadvantage of the full 24" barrel as compared to a 20" barrel? I don't want any damn noise maker on the end of the barrel. It's .223!! Not enough kick to warrant anything on the end of the barrel. (unless of course I see some other caliber that peeks my interest.)

"Pre-ban" means it has an evil flash hider and bayonet lug. Illegal in New York State pre-SAFE act unless you put it on a pre-ban lower. Whether or not it makes your EBR any more or less illegal post SAFE act has been debated ad-nauseum on other forums. Whether or not anyone really cares is a different matter.

[Meketrefe]

The 24 barrel will take the full speed and will do a complete burn on many loads. But I found after 21 to 22 inches there is less gain than 16 to 22. you can always buy a 24 and cut it to 22 or 21 later but if you buy a 20 inches it should be very good already. Hornady superformance with 75gr hpbt leaves the 20" barrel at 2,900 fps so that leaves behind other rounds in terms of speed and energy at any distance like the Russian and pePeshiltata blackout among others so you decide if you want 80 to 100 fps more and can handle the longer and heavier barrel.
If course it makes noise, it is a true rifle even in the smaller 224 bore.

Skip olympic. They are not known for consistent quality and accuracy. If you want one built check the RRA national match and the Stag I think they have with NM / DMR barrel too. But those are on a different league vs what I described to you above just because of the barrel. The group is fine. 2 stage RRA trigger is very good for the price and it can be tuned down to 2lbs.

comoe chicken.. Bite the bullet and build the real deal. The rewards are many. It doesn't apply in communist NY anymore.

Preban is from the previous sunset federal ban as warfab described the one we had here in NY before SAFE PePeshiltata.