Urgent Fire Mission

[Norm Deguerre x2]

Our Legislator Sucky Schumer Is trying hard to pass the legislation proposed to force abortion on every STATE
WRITE HIS OFFICE

[WARFAB]

These people are showing their true colors, and it's disgusting.

My prediction is that Schumer and co. know they don't have the votes and are proposing this legislation just to appease their mob base. If Schumer and the Dems actually do pass this, then the abortion issue is eliminated from the equation and will no longer have their base energized for the mid-term elections. The Dems don't actually want that.

The abortion issue is similar to the illegal immigration issue. Neither side of the establishment actually wants to solve these issues. They just want to use them as a political footballs.

[thughes]

What if I'm Libertarian?

[Norm DeGuerre]

Is that similar to vegatabltarian ??

[WARFAB]

What if I'm Libertarian?

Then eventually your hands off approach will leave you cornered with nowhere to go because you failed to stand up against the godless mob while you still could.

You've seen their control of the media. You're aware of their indoctrination practices in the schools. You've lived through the past 2 years. You know enough about history to know where their Marxist philosophy is headed.

[thughes]

Guess you don't want to hear that I'm pro-choice, huh? Although I do agree that the decision does need to go back to the states.

[WARFAB]

I'm aware you're pro choice. You're aware I'm aware you're pro choice. But that wasn't your question. My statement was in response to your stated question, and it remains true and is only reinforced by your opinion the decision should go back to the states. The pro abortion crowd are part of the Marxist horde, and you are well aware they want abortion (along with many other issues) determined at the federal level.

[Norm Deguerre x2]

Exactly, Willie. ????
Inaction has fatal consequencez

[WARFAB]

On a lighter note....


Hoesmad.jpeg

[usmcveteran]

Is there link to specifics of Schumer's proposal?

[WARFAB]

Is there link to specifics of Schumer's proposal?

Guessing this is what Schumer is going to bring up for a vote.... again.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...%5D%7D&r=1&s=1

[usmcveteran]

Still reading but I found this tidbit interesting.
"have the economic, social, and political power and resources to define and make decisions about their bodies, health, sexuality, families, and communities in all areas of their lives, with dignity and self-determination."

So does this say I have a right to refuse vaccination and mandates are wrong?

[thughes]

Still reading but I found this tidbit interesting.
"have the economic, social, and political power and resources to define and make decisions about their bodies, health, sexuality, families, and communities in all areas of their lives, with dignity and self-determination."

So does this say I have a right to refuse vaccination and mandates are wrong?

Exactly! You can't be pro-life and anti-vax at the same time without being a hypocrite.

[usmcveteran]

Can you explain more? I'm dumb lol.
I see pro life as essentially saying a unborn baby is life. Choosing to end the life would be murder because you can't assume it would consent to have it's life ended. So the baby essentially has autonomy over it's life. Just like the individual has the choice on whether to vaccinate themselves or not.

I would definitely disagree with the aspect that abortion for any reason is wrong. One example I would give is if there are health complications where mother and child or mother would likely die if the pregnancy continued. I would look at it like triage of mass casualty event. There is no right answer but a choice still needs to be made.

What is a miscarriage? It's the bodies way of terminating a pregnancy that likely isn't viable.

You could also make argument that God gave man free will and life as we know it is a test. You can choose abortion if you like but if it's not for the right reasons then you'll have consequences.

Definitely a very complicated issue for sure with very passionate people on both sides. I bet there is a lot of common ground to be had but I think this is like pro gun vs anti gun. People are so passionate they can't have a cordial conversation because they assume based on past experience what the others person's stance or arguments are.

I've gotten through to have legitimate conversations with ant gun people for example by starting with the fact I hate the NRA too.

[usmcveteran]

I'm dumb lol. I see it. How can you take away someones choice while demanding the right to make your own?

[thughes]

Exactly!

It's hypocritical to say that "You're NOT allowed to chose whether to terminate your pregnancy but you ARE allowed to choose whether to get a shot".

conversely

It's hypocritical to say that "You ARE allowed to terminate your pregnancy but you are NOT allowed to decide whether you can get a shot"


Make sense?


I'm just a godless heathen that believes "my body, my choice" across the board......regardless of the subject.

[WARFAB]

Exactly! You can't be pro-life and anti-vax at the same time without being a hypocrite.

That equivalency only works if you don't believe an unborn baby is another life.

To suggest not wanting an untested vaccine of dubious value is the same as killing a growing baby is specious at best, and you don't have to be religious to see or admit that.

Arguing libertarian principles is great, and I totally see the appeal. But as I commented above, the current cultural conflict isn't going to allow the "live and let live" hands off libertarian philosophy to sit on the sidelines. Take the abortion issue out of the equation completely, and you still know that the pro-abortion crowd is composed of the Marxists that eventually WILL demand your obedience from an all powerful federal government if they get their way. History has repeatedly shown where their path leads.

The current outrage is caused by the SCOTUS potentially sending the abortion issue back to the states. You agree that the issue should be at the state level. Norm started this thread in opposition to it being at the federal level. You asked "what if I'm a libertarian" and I replied why it matters even if you're a libertarian without ever bringing up being pro-life or pro-choice. We don't have a conflict here.

[WARFAB]

How much do you know about Marxism?

[usmcveteran]

Karl Marx founded communism so not much. I know he believed the working class would revolt against capatilism. So best guess abortions hurt capatilism by reducing future workforce?

[Norm Deguerre x2]

You got Two likes from me, Willie. ????

[thughes]

Norm started this thread in opposition to it being at the federal level. You asked "what if I'm a libertarian" and I replied why it matters even if you're a libertarian without ever bringing up being pro-life or pro-choice. We don't have a conflict here.

An excellent clarification, thank you. Sorry about getting off into the rhubarb on a specific issue.

Here's the root of my frustration: George Washington issued some parting wisdom in his Farewell Address. He basically warned that "the stability of the Republic was threatened by the forces of geographical sectionalism, political factionalism, and interference by foreign powers in the nation’s domestic affairs". He urged Americans to subordinate sectional jealousies to common national interests. Writing at a time before political parties had become accepted as vital extraconstitutional, opinion-focusing agencies, Washington feared that they carried the seeds of the nation’s destruction through petty factionalism.

"Petty factionalism" is exactly where we are now: The coastal elites (geographical sectionalism), political factionalism (Democrat/Republican "If you're not in total agreement with my party, you are totally opposed to my party") and the Biden crime family's ties to China and Eastern Europe (interference by foreign powers in the nation’s domestic affairs) are proving President Washington's prediction to be valid. It's a "my party vs your party" thing instead of a "what's best for our country" thing.

F ucking pisses me off to no end.

[thughes]

The above is why I very much admire Joe Manchin, the man is a true patriot.

[WARFAB]

Perhaps the most impressive thing about Manchin is the implication that he hasn't been compromised. If he can take these independent positions and stand up to basically all of DC, he's probably the cleanest guy in the entire city.

[usmcveteran]

Guessing this is what Schumer is going to bring up for a vote.... again.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...%5D%7D&r=1&s=1

I've read most of this and it's not well written at all and it's logic is inherently false as it contradicts the same arguments made on issues democrats don't like.

[thughes]

Chuck is a dick-eating piece of chit. Thank God my guy is Rand Paul (we'll just pretend Mitch the b itch doesn't exist)

[thughes]

Me, the (drunken) Centrist Libertarian, having fun in a mostly Conservative forum:

1574458333.gif

[Norm Deguerre x2]

Where do I fit in, in your Opinion Mr. Thug. ?? ????

[thughes]

Upside to Schmucky Schumer getting Roe codified as law (not gonna happen though): The Dems will no longer have a rallying cry against inflation/botched Afghanistan withdraw/Hunter's laptop/the Border crisis/etc to try and mitigate the red wave that is pretty much a certainty in November.

[WARFAB]

Me, the (drunken) Centrist Libertarian, having fun in a mostly Conservative forum:

1574458333.gif

Yeah I was going to point this out. The 'live and let live' libertarian comes and stirs up the controversy where it wasn't even a real issue. I was about to accuse you of becoming one of the puritans you despise.

[thughes]

Shouldn't you be at church or something? :-P

[WARFAB]

Church finished at 10:00.