There is no covid vaccine?

[usmcveteran]

Someone please help me with this. Please be skeptical and tell me what I'm missing but I don't think we have a vaccine for covid despite what were being told.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm this link shows important definitions relating to vaccines. This is the basis for my argument that we don't have a vaccine.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/covid...munity-5092148 this link talks about steralizing immunity, which to me sounds like the definition of immunity on CDC website in first link. Article in this second link goes on to say there is no evidence current (notice it says first generation vaccine lol) vaccine invokes steralizing immunity which means you body kills virus preventing you from becoming infected (again defined as immunity in first link which happens when you take a vaccine by definition).



https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ne-basics.html this link talks about covid vaccine. What's interesting is that there is no evidence that the vaccine actually prevents infection and stops transmission. Only evidence it prevents symptoms. So technically speaking the vaccine isn't even a vaccine because it doesn't do or hasn't been shown to do what a vaccine does by definition lol. So the CDC is using terms that by definition do not fit what at least the pfizer cure all symptom blocker 2000 syrum does, at least what evidence shows it does.

Finally I like this link lol https://www-bloomberg-com.cdn.amppro...n-side-effects .

So now that I think we have established that the covid vaccine isn't even a vaccine by definition since it's not proven to do what a vaccine does the FDA says the new moderna vaccine benefits outweigh ANY risk lol "Food and Drug Administration advisers voted 20 to 0, with one abstention, on Thursday that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh any risk, giving a boost to efforts to ramp up the U.S. immunization campaign. " . Any is a pretty all encompassing word and seems strong for something that only has been proven to stop symptoms lol. Well that is an assumption I have for the moderna vaccine since it's using same technology as pfizer's which hasn't been proved to do anything but stop symptoms.

https://apnews.com/article/us-expert...05479e4d94b786
"For example, while the vaccine is more than 90% effective in blocking the symptoms of COVID-19, the FDA’s advisers stressed it is not yet clear whether it can stop the silent, symptomless spread that accounts for roughly half of all cases.
“Even though the individual efficacy of this vaccine is very, very, very high, you really as of right now do not have any evidence” that it will lower transmission, said Dr. Patrick Moore of the University of Pittsburgh. He urged Pfizer to take additional steps to answer that question."

[usmcveteran]

Also why or how can you mandate something that had no evidence that it provides actual immunity or stops spread of disease!

[WARFAB]

Interesting. This isn't quite the angle I thought you were headed down. I figured the definition included something about introducing a weakened pathogen or some other technical specification that an mRNA vaccine doesn't fit.

Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.

Medical definitions vs. legal definitions. The above definition of the term "vaccine" says it produces immunity, which this mRNA shot doesn't seem to do. But, it also says it "protects the person from that disease" which it would appear this mRNA shot does.

Exactly what a medicine has to do to be legally considered a "vaccine" I have no idea. Has it previously been argued in court? Is there a legal precedent?

What's interesting is that there is no evidence that the vaccine actually prevents infection and stops transmission. Only evidence it prevents symptoms.

This is why they're saying that even if you get the vaccine, you still need to wear a mask and maintain social distancing. Not worrying about wearing masks or social distancing is pretty much why most people would want to get vaccinated so........I'm not so sure 'Operation Warp Speed' is the smashing success Trump would like us to believe it is.

On the plus side, we've now seen what can be accomplished with less government red tape. On the negative side, we're now doing large scale testing on the population at large. If this works out for the better, it could open the door to some amazing new treatments for a wide variety of health issues. If it works out poorly: World War Z.



The stock market has reacted to vaccine announcements under the idea that a vaccine will allow business to resume again, but that doesn't appear to be the case with this vaccine.

[usmcveteran]

Maybe I'm missing something too but to sum it up.

We have a product that has not been shown to provide any immunity. Rather it has been shown to prevent symptoms and therefore the negative health consequences.

This article says the rate of asymptomatic covid cases could be as high at 81%. Ummm if these "vaccines" were 81% effective at preventing symptoms we would still be thrilled lol. So how much protection are these "vaccines" actually providing? Maybe a 14% bump in protection over not getting it?

So any talk of mandating this thing with such little data and the data available doesn't even really show it's a game changer is insane. Plus we don't know long term consequences yet.

[WARFAB]

This article says the rate of asymptomatic covid cases could be as high at 81%.

If that's true, it would seem we're rapidly approaching herd immunity even without the vaccine.

No biggie though. The drug companies will still be getting their billions either way.

[big flash]

with no liability to boot.

[usmcveteran]

To be fair if you Google asymptomatic covid rate you'll see anything from teens to 80% lol. No body knows and to say the benefit of the vaccine outweighs ANY risk is stupid

[usmcveteran]

Oh yea, legal or medical definition of vaccine don't fit whatever this covid shot is lol. https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/vaccine

[big flash]

i love that you called it the "cure all symptom blocker 2000 serum" LOLOLOL

[usmcveteran]

Thanks lol.

[usmcveteran]

I emailed nys doh bureau of immunization asking if this can even be called a vaccine and if it's true there is no evidence that it will stop transmission and only prevents symptoms. I'll update if/when I get a response.

ETA: got reply saying to send email to the covid specific email address which I just did.

[usmcveteran]

Still haven't heard back but reading more. So basically my understanding is when you get the cure all shot it prevents you from getting symptoms which is good because you don't have to worry about complications from the actual virus.

The shot also prevents the virus from attaching to cells in your lower respiratory tract however they do not stop your upper respiratory tract from becoming infected. Which is why you still need to follow all the rules we do now with social distancing and wearing a mask. Pfizer vaccine is approved for 16 and older and moderna likely 18 and older. So best we can hope to achieve by getting vaccinated is reducing strain on healthcare system. However you can still get infected and pass it on to your underage children.

So again by both legal and medical definitions this isn't a vaccine since it doesn't actually provide immunity.

I bet people don't understand that and I feel like the government is misleading people with false expectations.

[WARFAB]

Underage kids don't seem to really get it or spread it much. The school district my daughter goes to have had very few positive test results and zero known cases of in school transmission.

[usmcveteran]

Lord of the flies scenario?

[thughes]

So, bottom line, even when the entire population is injected with the cure all shot we still have to wear our masks, hide in our houses, and avoid contact with other humans all the while watching small businesses fail in the near term and our economy crash in the long term? Awesome!

[usmcveteran]

So, bottom line, even when the entire population is injected with the cure all shot we still have to wear our masks, hide in our houses, and avoid contact with other humans all the while watching small businesses fail in the near term and our economy crash in the long term? Awesome!

Yup because kids can't get the cure all shot. But eventual they could develope an actual vaccine at which time you need to get that. Plus we don't know how long this cure all with prevent symptoms for before having to get it again.

[usmcveteran]

New question. So you get vaccine and you don't have to worry about symptoms anymore. You can still get it and transmit it but your safe. So if you don't get symptoms how do you know if your sick and have it? If you don't know you have it and don't get tested then you don't know when you need to quarantine right? So now you have an active case transmitting it to others and since they show no symptoms you can't even try and trace it right?

Sounds like maybe they know that and that's why they want to make it mandatory perhaps?

ETA: umm so if you can't trace it what will that do to businesses and economy when those who don't get vaccine get sick and department of health can't trace it? Anyone in work place that has vaccine could then be spreading it.

[usmcveteran]

Alright it's official, I'm really tired of information being presented in misleading ways.

I'm sure by know everyone has been told that mrna vaccines don't have any part of virus in it. Rather instructions on how to make a protein that is part of virus. If you haven't been paying attention and you read the info below would you think it was like a traditional vaccine and contains part of virus? They literally say it contains material from virus lol.

• mRNA vaccines contain material from the virus that causes COVID-19 that gives our cells instructions for how to make a harmless protein that is unique to the virus. After our cells make copies of the protein, they destroy the genetic material from the vaccine. Our bodies recognize that the protein should not be there and build T-lymphocytes and B-lymphocytes that will remember how to fight the virus that causes COVID-19 if we are infected in the future.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...they-work.html

[WARFAB]

• mRNA vaccines contain material from the virus that causes COVID-19 that gives our cells instructions for how to make a harmless protein that is unique to the virus. After our cells make copies of the protein, they destroy the genetic material from the vaccine. Our bodies recognize that the protein should not be there and build T-lymphocytes and B-lymphocytes that will remember how to fight the virus that causes COVID-19 if we are infected in the future.

Yeah that's mildly misleading. Plus, it is a disjointed way of explaining it since they also include "After our cells make copies of the protein, they destroy the genetic material from the vaccine." So an uninformed person has to make the leap from "material from the virus" to "genetic material from the vaccine".

But notice they ALWAYS include the "....destroy the genetic material from the vaccine." part in these statements. I kinda feel like we're suddenly living in a live action X-Files episode.

[usmcveteran]

I thought this was a good read . https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/19/...erna-vaccines/

Basically confirms other things in articles here and compares the two authorized vaccines. What's interesting is that we immediately saw some people have adverse reactions when it was rolled out and according to article that wasnt seen at all during the trials........