Duplicating someone elses reloads

[MilesTeg]

I stole this word for word from NYF. I would rather have the discussion over here.


Ok here's the situation. My father bought a scoped barrel for his Encore from a family friend. The friend reloaded for this barrel and included the recipe and a few rounds to test and see if my father liked them. My father shot them this past weekend and wants me to duplicate the round. My question is how to do it? I will lay out my plan and am open to comments or concerns. I also hope to track my progress using this thread.

So before my father even shot these rounds he ran out and bought the components and dies. So I have yet to check my manuals to see how far up the powder scale these rounds are. If they are close to the max I might decide to work back up to the powder charge.

Here's what I'm thinking for a procedure.
1. Remove the decapping stem from the die. Run a loaded round up and screw the die down until I make contact with the shoulder. Then probably screw the die down 1/8-1/4 turn more. If I happen to make contact with the shell holder before the shoulder I will just set up the die with the normal cam over as per RCBS's instructions.
2. Powder charge- Like stated above I have made a decision if I will work up to the given powder charge or just go for it yet. I'm also nervous about duplicating the charge weight between 2 scales. I don't know how far apart they could be 1gr or less? I have no clue.
3. Bullet seating- This is the easiest step of all simple calipers and match the OAL. Check to make sure the bullet isn't jammed into the lands.

Questions I still have yet to decide.
1. Start this endeavor with once fired brass from this weapon or new brass my father bought.
2. work up the powder charge to the known/desired charge weight.

I will add in another post the caliber(I think 280 but could be 260) and recipe. I don't have the info in front of me and forgot to grab it before I left this morning. Please share any of your experiences doing a similar project or any questions or concerns.

[MilesTeg]

I haven't had the time to go much farther than the original post. I do have some pictures of the existing rounds.

The new plan in to pull apart a few of the rounds.
1. To verify the powder on the label is what is the round by comparing to new powder.

​​2. Verify the powder charge.

After that I will check my manuals and see how close it is to a max charge. If it's not too close to max I will probably just load and go with it.

[WARFAB]

If the loads are are really maxed out, my understanding is that brass weight could impact chamber pressure. Heavier brass means thicker case walls and higher pressure. If the loads are really pushing the limits, then you should also measure OAL with a proper bullet comparator since the distance to max diameter can vary between bullets in a batch.

Unless your father is trying to shoot sub-MOA without a change in point of impact between the test loads and yours, you probably don't have to get super picky about the details. If the reloading manuals say that the loads aren't really maxed out, that would minimize concerns about powder charge differences between scales.

[Tony]

First I would compare the loading data on the box of reloads to a reloading manual. If it is in the middle of the range in the manual I would not disassemble any. If it is a max load I would not use it and start my search over. Generally max loads are not the most accurate. I would set up the seating die to the reloads and make up a dummy round to check to see if that length is engaging the rifling. Myself, if the rifle likes it I like to be about .020" off the lands. If the brass is good ( check the brass for future head seperations ) trim and load to spec. Have fun...

[BigJohnH]

You know what I said in the other place. Work up loads with the once fired brass. You can neck size that brass and run with it.

[Meketrefe]

What is that brass? Is it 280 or other brass formed? check headstamp.

Initially these are the two most critical things.
1- Use the same trim, neck diameter, bullet and COAL / distance to the lands.
2- Produce similar consistent speeds at the muzzle.

A good starting point would be to use the same powder, brass and primers but if this is not possible then use a powder with a similar burning rate and characteristics and
test a brass that you can acquire and prepare consistently.
If the brass is brand new (use quality brass) then wait until fire form in your chamber once to give it the final trim.

Your method with the die is ok to get started but eventually you need a bullet gauge to measure the COAL from the datum of the bullet. Form a dummy first and give it slight increases until
you match the COAL withing +/- 2 thou.
If you have once fired also check neck wall thickness at the neck to match the original load or perhaps in the process of testing might find out a new formula
that shoots even better than the ones given to you.

Don't need to do ladder testing. Simply go straight to the bulk area and choose the load that gives the best groups from your strings.

Without testing will be hard to assure that the replica is the same because even powder changes from year to year and batch to batch.

At the other hand the 280 is an awesome round and very forgiving to reload.

BTW the barrel should have a stamp with the chambering like 280rem or 280R or something.

Hornady's OAL gauge is affordable and it works the same as other pricier brands...

[Meketrefe]

Here is the round....

It is a bit longer at the shoulder than the 270 and 30-06 so it will not chamber in those by mistake.
Still it can be formed from other cases by creating a false shoulder and fireforming or hydroforming.

[MilesTeg]

Can someone verify that the powder charge that is listed over the max charge? From what I'm seeing on noslers website 56 gr is Max.

[MilesTeg]

The existing brass is federal head stamp FC. It's look like more and more I will be doing a work up. The new brass my father bought is hornday. I've never worked up a load without extreme accuracy in mind. My father doesn't care to make clover leaf holes at 100 yds. He just wants it to be hunting accurate. Therefore do I have to fire form the new cases or should I just size and load up and do a ladder test and pick a round from there.

[WARFAB]

For minute of deer accuracy I wouldn't worry about fire forming.

[Meketrefe]

Can someone verify that the powder charge that is listed over the max charge? From what I'm seeing on noslers website 56 gr is Max.

It is not a max charge but it is a hot one. It is not a peak pressure for the brass. A different thing is the firearm but if the brass is not sticky and primers look ok it should be fine.
hodgdon lists 58.5 gr max but at 48700cup / 57PSI that is well below the max for a FC case that should easily take 60-62K PSI max.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

You don't need to work up the load too much. Just go to that bulk park lets say a few strings from 57gr to 59gr with half grain variation and see what you get.
Even for hunting deer work out a nice load for your dad. Even a milder one might be more accurate and there is plenty of power anyway.

[MilesTeg]

Ya I might just start low and work my way up. My father rarely takes a long shot I dou t he will go over 100yds. So maybe the low might work for him. I'll have to see what fps nobler recommends for that bullet just to ensure I have enough behind the load. Thanks for the advice everyone I will talk it over with my father and see what he wants me to do.