Anyone annealing brass

[Meketrefe]

I am always looking for ways to help with those tasks. I have a good annealing system but I think I want to improve it using a couple of old ideas.

This is a good system the problem I see is that will not allow optional cooling. Also it doesn't have to be that pretty...

A 6 to 8 seconds seems like a perfect time... Again same problem not cooling optional specially for short cases like BR norma....

This is as rudimentary as one can get...

So the feeder is great but I prefer something that works with a simple clutch and self indexes so there is no risk to coming out of sink
or jamming and braking apart...

This prototype self indexes but then I need to add the water.

I have an idea I want to try but having somethng that is completely automated that can do 200 to 300 cases with optional cooling it would be perfect for me.
So I am going to use a cpu box as the frame and then try to integrate the cooling somehow.

Any ideas, suggestions... give me a shout.

[Cgrutt]

Cool. What is purpose of annealing cases?

[WARFAB]

Cool. What is purpose of annealing cases?

Annealing cases extends their life. All metals get "work hardened" as you repeatedly form them. Every time you fire and then resize brass you are compressing the metal a little bit. This makes the case necks brittle over time. After being reloaded a few times, you'll start to crack case necks when you shoot them. Annealing reverses the process by decompressing the metal to soften it and make it more malleable. If you're a serious reloader an annealer can pay for itself pretty quickly by allowing you to continue using the same cases over and over instead of having to buy new ones.

I've considered buying a Giraud annealer and annealing brass for the rifle team for a small feel to help cover the cost.

[WARFAB]

I have a good annealing system but I think I want to improve it using a couple of old ideas.

What system are you currently using? What kind of cooling system are you hoping to implement? What are the advantages of having some sort of cooling system?

When I took jewelry and metals in college we always used to quench in acid after annealing. I understand the heating does the annealing but I can't remember what the point of the rapid cooling was.

[camper4lyfe]

What system are you currently using? What kind of cooling system are you hoping to implement? What are the advantages of having some sort of cooling system?

When I took jewelry and metals in college we always used to quench in acid after annealing. I understand the heating does the annealing but I can't remember what the point of the rapid cooling was.

Typically with ferrous metals, heating then quenching will actually harden it.

edit:

With brass, the idea of quenching is to keep the rest of the case (ie the neck) from getting annealed, keeping the annealed zone at the opening of the case.

(i didn't read through a thread completely, so I got some bad info)

[Meketrefe]

I have a tray system that rotates. Then you fill the base with water to whatever level. I think this is important with very short cases like the 6mm BR norma and 6mm PPC and even shorter ones that one might have where you want to keep the heat away from the body and web of the case. you do not want to change the tempering of that section of the case. So the tray system that rotates does one by one and then they drop in the water or outside depends on the system but then you have to tend each case to feed and to make sure they get dropped. So it is less precise and more time consuming. The cooling in all tray systems I have seen is water, like a water bed vs. a dry tray. Some folks are ok with the bed being aluminum sockets as aluminum dissipates heat but water is the extra assurance, again for very short cases only. In large cases and magnums there is not enough time in 6 to 7 seconds for considerable heat to make it to the base.

[camper4lyfe]

Meke, is there any reason you couldn't just have it drop into a water bath rather than onto a tray? That seems to be the simplest way to go about adding a quench.

[WARFAB]

I was working with silver in jewelry class, so further softening was my goal.

I found this detailed explanation on 6mmbr.com. They make it sound like there is a lot more engineering behind the construction of bullet cases than I ever would have imagined.

[Meketrefe]

Cool. What is purpose of annealing cases?

It tempers the cases at the mouth so they will last a long time. Depending on the case and caliber some might need this more often or less often but they all need it.
for example, you take a caliber like the 243 or 260 and cases might show splits after 4 to 6 reloads whereas if you anneal cases are known to last for 50+ reloads and
they go bad because they loose primer pocket pressure before the neck splits or shoulder ruptures. Of course their life is determined by other factors too depending on
how hot you go and how you clean, prep and reload the brass.

[Meketrefe]

Rotating tray system....

Vertex popular with BR shooters...

This is the Grizzly system from the hardware supplier shop.

Or the biker system... LOL

[camper4lyfe]

A rotating annealer IN a water bath seems to be the best way to go, in my opinion, that way you keep the lower end of the case cool, and only anneal what you want done.

[WARFAB]

The Ken Light annealer shown in the 6mmbr article looks like it does a good job of preventing the case head from getting hot, but you have to continually load the cases into it. Not that it's very strenuous, but there is definitely some appeal to the Giraud machine where you can just drop all your cases in and then work on doing something else while it anneals them.

[Meketrefe]

The water bed is not really needed with larger cases. One can even pick them up with the fingers after done. They do not get any hotter than a regular fired case. Br, 223, 6.8, grendel, ppc .... those are the ones that can use some water. Also most people over do it. What you want is the temp to go up quick but they do not even need to change color. Some folks even get them red hot. That is bad bad.

[WARFAB]

I'd be dealing with .223 since that's what I shoot most, so it would appear as though I'd want something with a heat sink.

I've heard of people getting a lot more reloads out of LC .223 brass than I'm getting. Not sure what the deal is, but in my experience necks start cracking consistently after the 4th reload. I start seeing some cracks after the 3rd reload. I'm shooting CCI primers, 24 gr of Varget, and Hornady 75 gr HPBT bullets. I didn't think that was an especially hot load, yet I hear lots of people talking about longer case life than I get. If I could find a decent annealer on ebay for a good price I'd jump on it.

[Meketrefe]

Meke, is there any reason you couldn't just have it drop into a water bath rather than onto a tray? That seems to be the simplest way to go about adding a quench.

Well you do not want to quench them that is the thing. There is a lot of debate here because of traditions but an expert will tell you to temper you do not want the temp to lower faster than it raised. Perhaps a metalurgical engineer can clarify this but a wet towel or just and aluminum pan might be the best way. The thing is even when not done perfectly it is better than not done at all because some brass will not last much. Some expensive one like lapua or norma. This way lapua will last for ever and that expensive amazing brass becomes the cheapest to own because the cases just keep on going. One could buy 100 cases and shoot the accuracy life of 2 or 3 barrels depending on caliber.