Negligent Gun Owner

[alistair]

One of the women in my office building walked into my office today to let me know she had just obtained her pistol permit (Orange County with restrictions).
She then stared to tell me about her new gun .... a CW something, unsure of the caliber - 35 she thought.....After some probing I worked out that she had a S&W .357 Bodyguard revolver. And she claims it comes with a suppresser.

This is where things get hairy for her ...... As this is an OC permit she needed to buy the gun before she applied for the permit. So she went to Cabelas in PA and selected a gun, it was put away until she received her permit. Upon getting her permit she returned to Cabelas and picked up the gun and took it home.

So she has no idea what kind of gun, or what caliber she has, it may have or have not a suppresser and she transfered in into NYS without a NYS ffl clearance.

[WARFAB]

So she has no idea what kind of gun, or what caliber she has, it may have or have not a suppresser and she transfered in into NYS without a NYS ffl clearance.

What is the process for adding a pistol to a permit in OC?

I'm hoping you advised her of the proper way to do things and offered to take her to the range and give her some instruction.

[Jimbo_79]

I'm with WARFAB on this! I hope you gave her some advice. Just imagine if she gets in trouble, the media will have a field day with this.

[Cgrutt]

Not sure this is making complete sense to me.

1. If it was put on layaway until she received her permit, it should have been added to her permit by Orange County when she received it along with the supporting "green" paper documentation, so it should already be on her permit.

2. Not aware of any requirement to have a NY FFL do the transfer so long as Orange county added it to her permit and gave her the documentation to pick it up.

3. Cabelas is not a fly by night operation, I'd be surprised if they didn't follow proper protocol to transfer to NYS resident.

4. Wasn't aware that S&W made revolvers with a suppressor...

5. Sounds like she isn't the sharpest tool in the tool shed, LOL...

[thughes]

2. Not aware of any requirement to have a NY FFL do the transfer so long as Orange county added it to her permit and gave her the documentation to pick it up.

Federal law 18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts:

(a) It shall be unlawful— (1) for any person— (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or

(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;


(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that— (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

(B) this paragraph shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer from depositing a firearm for conveyance in the mails to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who, pursuant to the provisions of section 1715 of this title, is eligible to receive through the mails pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person, for use in connection with his official duty; and

(C) nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as applying in any manner in the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States differently than it would apply if the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the possession were in fact a State of the United States;


(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;




(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver— (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

(2) any firearm to any person in any State where the purchase or possession by such person of such firearm would be in violation of any State law or any published ordinance applicable at the place of sale, delivery or other disposition, unless the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe that the purchase or possession would not be in violation of such State law or such published ordinance;

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

[alistair]

Not sure this is making complete sense to me.

1. If it was put on layaway until she received her permit, it should have been added to her permit by Orange County when she received it along with the supporting "green" paper documentation, so it should already be on her permit. - Gun is on her permit, but she can not just walk into a PA store and pick up the gun. All transfers across state lines need to be handled through a ffl.

2. Not aware of any requirement to have a NY FFL do the transfer so long as Orange county added it to her permit and gave her the documentation to pick it up. - even having the gun on the permit a ffl still needs to do the background check.

3. Cabelas is not a fly by night operation, I'd be surprised if they didn't follow proper protocol to transfer to NYS resident. - Done some more research - and it appears that the person that allowed her to pick up the gun was a total moron (and also I agree with #5 below). He took her permit from her, telling her that they needed to do the ffl paperwork, but he allowed her to walk out the store with the gun. She now has the gun in her possession, but Cabelas has her permit.

4. Wasn't aware that S&W made revolvers with a suppressor... - Don't know about this yet - she is going to send me a picture of the gun tonight. Even in PA you need a special permit to own a suppresser.

5. Sounds like she isn't the sharpest tool in the tool shed, LOL...

- I agree - The type that gives gun owners a bad name.

[Cgrutt]

Thanks I wasn't aware of that. I always thought you could buy pistols from FFL in neighboring state.

So if the story is true, Cabelas accepted a layaway from a NY resident to purchase a pistol and then transferred it to said person upon receiving paperwork from the wrong state? Call me jaded but I find this incredibly hard to believe.

[Cgrutt]

She should probably call the OC Sherrif and have them take possession of gun until she clears this up...

[thughes]

This^

what a freaking mess....

[alistair]

Thanks I wasn't aware of that. I always thought you could buy pistols from FFL in neighboring state.

So if the story is true, Cabelas accepted a layaway from a NY resident to purchase a pistol and then transferred it to said person upon receiving paperwork from the wrong state? Call me jaded but I find this incredibly hard to believe.

From what I was told - Employee was fired on the stop.

[WARFAB]

So if the PA shop gave her the gun and she gets her permit back..... and nobody alerts the authorities.... she's probably good to go to the classroom/range to get some proper instruction?

Am I missing something or is she in the clear once she gets her permit back?

[Sailor Jerry]

surprised cabela's did not want the revolver shipped back through an ffl , put back on their books and then shipped to a ffl in ny to transfer to owner. redundant but in my opinion would cover them with the atf. I don't think the story is accurate by a newly armed new Yorker.....

[alistair]

surprised cabela's did not want the revolver shipped back through an ffl , put back on their books and then shipped to a ffl in ny to transfer to owner. redundant but in my opinion would cover them with the atf. I don't think the story is accurate by a newly armed new Yorker.....

FYI = Cabela's are desperate to get the gun back and are willing to send a courier to pick up.

[Sailor Jerry]

hope the courier is a ffl....

[Meketrefe]

This situation sounds like a soap opera.
Help her out to sort this mess out.