Rare breed trigger NYS legality?

[usmcveteran]

Curious in your opinions and to see if I missed anything.

As you may know rare breed trigger is currently fighting with ATF who claims it's a machine gun even though it doesn't meet the definition of machine gun.

Basic operation is that when the bolt carrier goes to the rear after firing it the trigger forces a reset. This is why some have complained about reliability because they pulled trigger so hard it slowed down the bolt carrier so much it causes malfunctions. Once trigger resets like any trigger it allows you to fire it again.

here are what I think are the applicable laws in NYS

SECTION 265.00 Definitions
1. "Machine-gun" means a weapon of any description, irrespective of
size, by whatever name known, loaded or unloaded, from which a number of
shots or bullets may be rapidly or automatically discharged from a
magazine with one continuous pull of the trigger and includes a
sub-machine gun.

So far this trigger doesn't meet the definition since it forces a trigger reset before it can fire again. So there is no continues pull of trigger. The forced reset action of trigger ensures separate pulls for each shot.

21. "Semiautomatic" means any repeating rifle, shotgun or pistol,
regardless of barrel or overall length, which utilizes a portion of the
energy of a firing cartridge or shell to extract the fired cartridge
case or spent shell and chamber the next round, and which requires a
separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge or shell.

This again reaffirms the trigger is not a machine gun as it meets definition of semiautomatic.

26. "Rapid-fire modification device" means any bump stock, trigger
crank, binary trigger system, burst trigger system, or any other device
that is designed to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic
firearm, rifle or shotgun.

This is where vagueness of the law comes in. This trigger is not a bump stock, trigger crank, not a binary trigger because it doesn't fire when you release trigger. The vague part is the last sentence. They do not define what rate of fire is. This trigger does not change the rate of fire a rifle is capable of. If you argue that it allows individuals to accelerate the rate of fire they are capable of then any adjustable or "non standard" trigger would fall under this definition which does not make sense and would make most competition shooters in violation of law. That would bring up selective enforcement questions as well. 27. "Bump stock" means any device or instrument that increases the
rate of fire achievable with a semi-automatic firearm, rifle or shotgun
by using energy from the recoil of the weapon to generate a
reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the
trigger.

28. "Trigger crank" means any device or instrument that repeatedly
activates the trigger of a semi-automatic firearm, rifle or shotgun
through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular
motion and thereby accelerates the rate of fire of such firearm, rifle
or shotgun, provided, however, that "trigger crank" shall not include
any weapon initially designed and manufactured to fire through the use
of a crank or lever.

29. "Binary trigger system" means any device that, when installed in
or attached to a semi-automatic firearm rifle, or shotgun causes that
weapon to fire once when the trigger is pulled and again when the
trigger is released.
the above definitions provide clarity for rapid fire modification device definition.

30. "Burst trigger system" means any device that, when installed in or attached to a semi-automatic firearm, rifle, or shot gun, allows that weapon to discharge two or more shots with a single pull or the trigger by altering the trigger reset. I believe this definition has a typo otherwise it doesn't make sense to me. The rare breed trigger does not allow weapon to discharge 2 or more shot per trigger pull. I think the definition should say "allows that weapon to discharge two or more shots with a single pull OF the trigger by altering the trigger reset". This also makes no sense because a trigger reset means a separate pull is needed to fire another projectile. If it's not a typo then the last part makes no sense and no way enforceable.

265.02
(2) Such person possesses any explosive or incendiary bomb, bombshell, firearm silencer, machine-gun or any other firearm or weapon simulating
a machine-gun and which is adaptable for such use;

There is no definition for simulated machine gun. This law is pretty vague and unclear. Machine guns aren't defined by any type of rate of fire and this device doesn't simulate a single trigger pull. So I don't think it's applicable either.
ETA: ok this makes sense now. so let's say you buy the rare breed trigger and put it in a lower that shows different modes of fire for safety selector switch then it would appear to be a machine gun even though it's not by definition. So that would simulate a machine gun as it would give the outward appearance of being one? Again appearance doesn't define a machine gun but it's the best guess I have as to meaning of the law.

[usmcveteran]

Ok I'll add a little more for consideration as well. Penal law 265.02 is really the vague portion of the law that could potentially be applicable (if you know of anything else please let me know).

as a reminder this is the law I assume NYS would use to potentially charge someone? (2) Such person possesses any explosive or incendiary bomb, bombshell, firearm silencer, machine-gun or any other firearm or weapon simulating a machine-gun and which is adaptable for such use;

what is the general purpose of NYS penal law? Well luckily NYS tells us.

S 1.00 Short title.
This chapter shall be known as the "Penal Law"

S 1.05 General purposes.
The general purposes of the provisions of this chapter are:
1. To proscribe conduct which unjustifiably and inexcusably causes or
threatens substantial harm to individual or public interests;
2. To give fair warning of the nature of the conduct proscribed and of
the sentences authorized upon conviction;
3. To define the act or omission and the accompanying mental state
which constitute each offense;
4. To differentiate on reasonable grounds between serious and minor
offenses and to prescribe proportionate penalties therefor;
5. To provide for an appropriate public response to particular
offenses, including consideration of the consequences of the offense for
the victim, including the victim`s family, and the community; and
6. To insure the public safety by preventing the commission of
offenses through the deterrent influence of the sentences authorized,
the rehabilitation of those convicted, and their confinement when
required in the interests of public protection.


Unless I'm missing something the law above does NOT meet the requirements as it does not provide for a mental state. I.E. knowingly or otherwise.

[usmcveteran]

So it doesn't really appear to increase rate or fire from a person. This is not very scientific however it shows a non forced reset trigger is pretty much identical in speed for rate of fire.

[thughes]

ATF: "We have determined that Jerry Miculek is a machine gun"

[WARFAB]

30. "Burst trigger system" means any device that, when installed in or attached to a semi-automatic firearm, rifle, or shot gun, allows that weapon to discharge two or more shots with a single pull or the trigger by altering the trigger reset.

I believe this definition has a typo otherwise it doesn't make sense to me. The rare breed trigger does not allow weapon to discharge 2 or more shot per trigger pull. I think the definition should say "allows that weapon to discharge two or more shots with a single pull OF the trigger by altering the trigger reset". This also makes no sense because a trigger reset means a separate pull is needed to fire another projectile. If it's not a typo then the last part makes no sense and no way enforceable.

Agreed that it is likely a typo and should say 'of'. It's kind of vague, but I'm guessing they are pretty specifically referring to the tri-burst systems that you used to be able to order in the back of gun magazines that were advertised as 'completely legal' back in the day. I'm not sure if their wording of 'altering the trigger reset' is an accurate description of how those systems worked, but I only have a vague recollection of how the little gear mechanism counts the three shots before re-engaging the disconnector. Don't have the time to google it right now.