AR Pistols in New Yorkistan

[WARFAB]

Can anyone explain the AR pistol thing to me? I'm a little fuzzy on the legalities of them and how they are regulated by SAFE and the pistol permitting process. Are they transferable? Is there a min or max limit on barrel length? Is there a weight limit that differentiates between a pistol and an assault weapon? An AR pistol can have any AW features you want and a removable magazine as long as it doesn't have a stock?

Seeing them at the Rochester gun show got me curious. I asked the one vendor who had some for sale about it, and he basically said that as long as it doesn't have a stock it's a pistol and can be put on your permit. He claimed he had some lengthy conversations with the police about what he was doing building these pistols and was assured he was within the law. I had a hard time believing there wasn't more to it than that, and I know that the police aren't reliable interpreters of the law. Figured I'd see if anyone here has a more detailed explanation of how New York State law views these pistols.

[Cgrutt]

Let me start by saying I don't know the answer but it seems to me an semi-automatic AR pistol with detachable magazine would be a so called "assault weapon" by definition under unSAFE as the magazine attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip. If that's the case and it was owned pre-unSAFE I would imagine it would be legal within NYS if registered. Same rules would apply no transfer etc... now if magazine was FIXED it would no longer meet definition of an "assault weapon" (but would still be a pistol) and I suppose you could have any feature you'd like so long as it was added to your permit ... Just my opinion as stated above I really don't know.

Also my understanding is a stripped lower is neither a rifle or pistol (treated as "other"). Once configured as a pistol it needs to be on your permit and it will always be a pistol going forward.

[WARFAB]

I didn't check to see if the magazines were fixed on the pistols they were selling.

[dwa12479]

It's my understanding that the magazine has to be fixed for an AR pistol in NY, otherwise it falls under mag outside the grip as Cgrutt mentioned, but it's also over 50 oz unloaded as well.

[WARFAB]

It's my understanding that the magazine has to be fixed for an AR pistol in NY, otherwise it falls under mag outside the grip as Cgrutt mentioned, but it's also over 50 oz unloaded as well.

How many AR pistols are under 50 ounces unloaded? If the magazine has to be fixed that means that the 50 ounces has to include the magazine weight too right?

Hypothetically speaking, I might know a guy who put a Springfield Saint pistol on his permit. The Springfield website lists the weight as 5 lb 8 oz. Is this a situation where the law is just a mess so people are doing stuff they shouldn't but nobody really knows or cares? Guessing the county permit offices aren't going to be weighing these pistols before putting them on a permit.

New Frontier Armory claims their EXP-556 pistol is the lightest production 5.56 AR pistol in the world at 48 ounces. It doesn't have a buffer or buffer tube and it kind of looks like it has polymer receivers. All the AR pistols at the show appeared to be aluminum receivers with buffer tubes.

Do people just not care anymore? I don't really care, but the one guy at the show claimed he got sign off from the police and everything. Good times.

[Cgrutt]

If its not semi automatic or mag is not detachable features (including weight) don't matter.

[dwa12479]

How many AR pistols are under 50 ounces unloaded? If the magazine has to be fixed that means that the 50 ounces has to include the magazine weight too right?

Hypothetically speaking, I might know a guy who put a Springfield Saint pistol on his permit. The Springfield website lists the weight as 5 lb 8 oz. Is this a situation where the law is just a mess so people are doing stuff they shouldn't but nobody really knows or cares? Guessing the county permit offices aren't going to be weighing these pistols before putting them on a permit.

New Frontier Armory claims their EXP-556 pistol is the lightest production 5.56 AR pistol in the world at 48 ounces. It doesn't have a buffer or buffer tube and it kind of looks like it has polymer receivers. All the AR pistols at the show appeared to be aluminum receivers with buffer tubes.

Do people just not care anymore? I don't really care, but the one guy at the show claimed he got sign off from the police and everything. Good times.

The 50 oz would only apply to detachable mags, which is why the mag must be fixed. The Desert Eagle is now disqualified in NY due to the 50 oz weight limit.

[big flash]

The 50 oz would only apply to detachable mags, which is why the mag must be fixed. The Desert Eagle is now disqualified in NY due to the 50 oz weight limit.

yup! 22. "Assault weapon" means
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a thumbhole stock;
(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
(iv) capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(v) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(vi) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned;
(vii) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; or
(viii) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm;