Talk to me about 30 cal projectiles

[thughes]

Reloading for 30-06 and 7.5 Swiss:

- IMR 4064.
- I have 150, 165, 168, and 175 gn projectiles (SMK and clones) HPBT's and SPBT's.
- 200 yards
- iron sights
- have chrono but have not yet used it

What do I need to know in respect to developing accurate consistent loads? Do I need more than 150 gn bullets for 200 yd distances? Etc.

Talk to me Mek, et al?

[dsdmmat]

150 grain is fine for 200 yards. Do you know the headspace of your rifle? Do you neck size your brass?

Finding the best load for your gun takes a bit of measuring and then ladder loading. Once you have the headspace and seating depth down then it is playing with primers, powders and powder load weights.

[thughes]

Headspace...no. Full-length size, trim to spec. Haven't played with seating depth for the Garand loads but for the K31 I seat .002-.003 off the lands (seems to group real well that way). I guess I'm just looking for justification to keep using my bulk supply of 150 gn and not have to purchase heavier projectiles to gain accuracy at 200 yards.

[Meketrefe]

I am not a garand or 30.06 enthusiast but the loads I tested in the past were pretty consistent.
Given one has a match grade (vs service grade) barrel then same directives apply as in other cartridges like the 308w.
We know lapua is amazing brass super consistent and if one doesn't have this Federal or Winchester should be segregated and prepared super consistently.
This means, super clean, consistent sizing and trimming and that is a great start.
Accuracy loads are normally below SAAMI so you might want to start with a milder charge. 4895 and varget are super consistent but for long range you
will need a slower powder ideally.
Find one max COAL, magazine or chamber, whatever comes first and luckily form the max in the chamber subtract 10 to 20 thousands for jump into the lands
and the accuracy should be there.
If you bring a small press to the range you can try present loads with small charge variations and load them large and then at the range you can do minute
adjustments with the seater die.

Maybe this will help....
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...-30-06_10.html

Forget about the speed for now and write everything down!!

[Liberty's Teeth]

Meke is spot on, forget MV as you develop your load!

Load to 3.280 - 3.300 but be consistent. The Garand issue barrel wont give you the ability to have the olgive up near the lands and grooves for enbloc loading. Just the nature of the beast and with the accuracy of the rifle being what it is, we don't stretch the pills out for single round slow fire.
2650 FPS is/was considered optimum for the factory match ammo in the day. Bottom line, you want your SD in the teens if possible. 4064 is 46.5 to 47 behind 168 to get you there. Additionally make certain your pills are concentric to the case within .002 max. I have data for you on the 150's but need to get into my notes as I have not shot them in a while and I don't recall what it is.
This is your starting point young man

PS, I just started shooting 42.5 gr Varget behind 168. It runs the pill at 2550 but I am getting an SD of 10 and nice little shot groups

4064 behind 150 gr pill is 48.5 -49.0
Loads above are with Mil brass, not commercial!!!!!

[RandallOfLegend]

FYI, the K31 doesn't like neck sizing only, full length size! (according to my research).

[thughes]

FYI, the K31 doesn't like neck sizing only, full length size! (according to my research).

Good advice, I always full length size all my rifle brass. Although it's funny you mentioned that: The first batch of 7.5 Swiss I reloaded would not chamber without a swift whack to the bolt handle, upon resizing my second bacth I noticed that the die was not screwed down all the way to the shell holder and the last 1/8" of brass was not being resized. I corrected that and have not had any trouble chambering reloads since. (lesson learned)

[Meketrefe]

The issue with the old service rifles is that, unless rechambered to SAAMI specs the chambers might have slight variations (larger normally) but not consistent so if you do not FL size
what works in one might not work on another of the same caliber. But if you use it in the same the neck sizing alone might be a much better fit. For this I suggest the bushing system
like the nice Redding S bushing that you can do minute adjustments with a set of 3 bushings 1 thousands difference in size and depending on the case, bullet and load.
But if nothing else you can always do a FL resizing but w/o bumping the shoulders too much, try unscrewing the die 1/8 of a turn and locking it but it will be more reliable if you get
a few competition shell holders with 1 or 2 thousands increase in height. Before you go on the field always have a template dummy round for the case job (not COAL) and use that
one as template and make sure it chambers fine as far as shoulder/size/headspace situation. And remember the thigther the better, but w/o problems.
This might help you in two ways. Find the sweet spot and increase accuracy and extending the life of the brass by avoiding stretching (typical in many service rifles unless match
re-barreled) and even some occasional case separation with extreme chambers.

[thughes]

That sounds like really good advice if I could understand a single thing you said! Looks like we need to get together again over a beer and some trap so I can ask some questions....

[Meketrefe]

That sounds like really good advice if I could understand a single thing you said! Looks like we need to get together again over a beer and some trap so I can ask some questions....

Trap, beers? .. anytime! lol.

But you realize many military rifles might have chambers that are not 100% up to spec right, normally larger to allow easier feeding with dust, debris, water and ice in the heat of battle.
In some cases this was so extreme the brass is literally ruined. It is not frequent but also not so rare. So it is not the same having a difference between dies and chamber of 1 thousands vs
5 thousands or even more. You know this right?
In this case before you rechamber the best thing is to resize on the large side to keep it closer to the dimension of the chamber so you do not overwork the brass so much.

[Ham_Chu]

Once again...better late...but I use 2 different loads in 30-06:

Garand: 155gr Hornaday A-Max, Win LR Primer and 47.0gr of IMR4895. I will use HXP or LC military brass. Seated out to Max COAL

Springfield/Enfield: 155gr Hornaday A-Max, Win LR Primer and 45.0gr of BLC-2. I will use HXP or LC military brass. Seated to 3.325"

My bolt guns are seated shorter than the Garand, for some reason they seem to perform better that way. This is gun specific.

[Meketrefe]

This is simply amazing. Look at the 200gr goodies! No need for super heavy magnums to reach a target in the next town over...

“These new bullets beat everything out there, even at the highest levels of competition, by 20%.” – Alan Warner, Warner Tool Company

That doesn’t seem to be an overstatement, based on the Ballistic Coefficients (BC) WTC has published on this new line of bullets. BC is measurement of how efficiently a bullet is able to cut through air, and the higher the BC, the better the bullet will be at retaining its velocity and the better performance you can expect downrange. These bullets have ridiculously high BC’s for their weight. Warner & Kunz are currently focusing on 30 caliber bullet designs, plus one 338 bullet design. Here are the details on what they’ve branded their “Flat Line” series of bullets:

30	155.5gr Palma	10	0.553	0.285	0.576	0.290
30	175gr FTR	10	0.678	0.340	0.694	0.348
30	200gr	9	0.780	0.391	0.796	0.399
33	255.5gr LRBT	10	0.814	0.400	0.834	0.411

[WARFAB]

I'm sure they cost like $2 per round too.

[Meketrefe]

Palma bullets are $1.3 each.
198gr extreme long range bullets are $1.5 but on a simple WSM from a long action (longer COAL) will produce 6.4 mil at 1000 yards and stay supersonic to 2000 yards.
It shoots flatter and further than the 338 lapua magnum with 300gr Berger bullets and it is cheaper to shoot. much cheaper brass and way less powder.
These are for paper and steel targets. I am not sure about other terminal properties.