Opinions on bullet expansion

[SPIKER]

I've been trying to come up with a load that equals the Nosler Solid Base 85gr. .243 load that I have been shooting for a long time. I never really got too into the details as it was accurate, and put down every animal I ever shot with it.

Now, I have been shooting through the chrono, and using water jugs to see how well the heads I'm using are retaining mass, etc.

Here's a pic of the Nosler Solid base SPBT that I only have about a hundred or so left. It came out at around 2950 fps, and got caught in the fourth gallon water jug. (I placed 4, one in front of the other with an inch separation between each one).



Here's the Nosler Partition SP in 85gr at around the same speed, also caught in the fourth jug:




This is a 90gr Nosler Accubond caught in the third jug, and a little slower at around 2922 fps.



I had a great round using a Speer 85gr SPBT. It was coming out at 3082fps over 40gr of Varget, but it was getting caught in the second jug, and all that was left were flakes of copper.


So, my question is....do you want a round that penetrates more, or a round that has minimal penetration with maximum expansion?

[usmcveteran]

I think your really looking for compromise between the two. Ideally you also want it to retain 100% or as much as possible of original mass. For penetration I think you want 18 inches. You don't know how big a person is and if you need to stop them you need to hit organs. Also what if you have to go through glass or other barriers.

I would think the FBI criteria for ballistics would be pretty good.

[SPIKER]

I think your really looking for compromise between the two. Ideally you also want it to retain 100% or as much as possible of original mass. For penetration I think you want 18 inches. You don't know how big a person is and if you need to stop them you need to hit organs. Also what if you have to go through glass or other barriers.

I would think the FBI criteria for ballistics would be pretty good.

Now, while body armor is a consideration also, I think at this point I'm just concerning myself with Whitetail deer. For Varmints, a fast explosive round is fine because they don't have the body mass, or bone structure that a Cervid has.

[usmcveteran]

18 inches should still be good for deer but I don't hunt. As far as self defense I know a lot of people that mix different rounds in there magazine because that way no matter what they are covered.

Again for deer though I would look at depth of heart and lungs on average and shoot for a couple days extra inches of penetration and you should be right where you want to be I would think.

[Meketrefe]

Thanks for sharing those nice pictures.
I think depending on the shot you want a round that penetrates but that puts the parachute on ASAP so it leaves as much energy as possible before exiting.
A good design for that are the nosler partition and the barnes TSX or TTSX solids. but also many bonded will achieve the similar effect.
I think the heart shot behind the leg is a good way to go and as a meat saver specially if one can be sure of their shots and with a good angle.
But I think sometimes might be worth to ruin a bit of meat and to go for the shoulder. This anchors the deer and when injected into the plexus
will produce instant collapse, even faster than a heart through and through where the animal can still manage to run up to 50 yards with the oxigen in the
muscles before collapsing.
These can be equually lethal on the neck shot and since those many times sever or damage the spinal cord they result in instant collapse.
Since the neck is a thinner section there one could go for a fragmenting bullet with a shallower yet broad wound like some of the match and varmint bullets.
Not a supersoft varmint but something more like a Vmax for a coyote
On the fragmenting end also the SST and vmax are great like those berger hunting VLDs that are great fliers and and are brutal. But in this case I would try
to avoid too much bone and go for the thinner areas like neck and behind the foreleg. to catch shoulder and bone or when hunting pigs one wants a more
stout bullet with more penetration and bone crushing while leaving lots of energy in the target.
The key with solid bullets is speed. the more speed the better they work no matter what caliber even in the 223 they are brutal. Speed is not a problem
for the .243 that is for sure. Try the partition and the TSX or TTSX.
Taking down large game doens't require lots of power for good shooters. 22LR is used by poachers to take deer with a careful shot in the temple right
behind the eye. This is a mortal shot. We know this is illegal and any self respected hunter should report such activities but just to say that no matter
what caliber and sometimes what bullet with selective placement one can achieve what is needed like in a survival situation.


Here I made a little summary for another hunting forum so people can get some ideas about different placements and make some choices as necessary...

deershots2-vi.jpg

[SPIKER]

Akona, thank you for your response. In your opinion, which head shown above would be your choice? My only issue with the Partition is that it is the least accurate of the 4 (including the Speer 85gr SPBT not shown).

I ordered some Sierra Game Kings in 85gr HPBT to test also. Any knowledge of these heads?

[BuellSix8]

Sierra has a long and solid reputation for being a solid performer. I have used the 85gr HPBT out of my Model 7 and by far one of the most consistent shooters for me.

[Meketrefe]

I like sierra but lately they are becoming very expensive and a bit arrogant on top. They are not sending much to NYS due to the 'political climate'. f them.
Any of them will work fine. Just pick the one you shoot best with. partition, speer, corelokt, interlock one must be sure the rifle / chambering doesn't damage the tips too much.
the hornday 100gr interlock is a classic but the SP will do also just fine. All should be pretty accurate for hunting. Consider the 95gr and 100 gr ones with the 243. but I would not worry
too much about accuracy. They shoudl be accurate enough for hunting not more than 1.5 MOA or even better. If you want to spend a bit more the ballistic tips are more consistent and harder to damage the tip. the 95gr will work great. But also try the 80gr TTSX. They are brutal specially with the 243 speeds.
It is hard to go wrong with any of those I think. they are classics.

[Pissed Off Patriot]

I don't have an opinion on bullet expansion but I did enjoy seeing Spikers pics in the first post. Reminds me of the time I lined up some water jugs and shot them with my Mosin using FMJ steel core milsurp 54r.



The round made it to the 4th jug, and by then the steel core separated and continued on into the 5th jug, along with a few small pieces of shrapnel.

[BuellSix8]

I'm still using Sierras from the 90s. One of the guys that taught me about reloading always bought things in lots. Same lot number, in his eyes, would a note consistent production level. In many cases he was right. So, when he bought ammo, HE BOUGHT AMMO, Powder, bullets, primers, brass, etc in bulk and with all same lot numbers.

Due to family happenings, I was the recipient of many things of his in which I am eternally grateful for.

[Meketrefe]

I don't have an opinion on bullet expansion but I did enjoy seeing Spikers pics in the first post. Reminds me of the time I lined up some water jugs and shot them with my Mosin using FMJ steel core milsurp 54r.



The round made it to the 4th jug, and by then the steel core separated and continued on into the 5th jug, along with a few small pieces of shrapnel.

Thanks for posting the pics.
The thing with fmjs and steel core bullets and specially some foreign is that they chew up the rifling pretty fast and also consistency in accuracy is not there.
But they are what they are and some people find surplus value packs great value for shootin the schit.
The thing with these one must be careful specially some of the russian rounds they ricochet like crazy even when shooting hard objects so do not use them
for shooting steel or when rocks are in the back. Also might ruin the targets and make sure always dirt or proper backstop is in place.
you really want to come back home with the same nr. of eyes and ears and holes when you left in the morning. ...or worse...

[SPIKER]

the hornday 100gr interlock is a classic but the SP will do also just fine. Consider the 95gr and 100 gr ones with the 243.

They shoudl be accurate enough for hunting not more than 1.5 MOA or even better.

If you want to spend a bit more the ballistic tips are more consistent and harder to damage the tip. the 95gr will
work great. But also try the 80gr TTSX. They are brutal specially with the 243 speeds.

I've been looking at those Interlocks. Might have to give them a try. I have been using Ballistic Tips for years in my 300 Win Mag, and they are a good head.

Sierra has a long and solid reputation for being a solid performer. I have used the 85gr HPBT out of my Model 7 and by far one of the most consistent shooters for me.

I'll find out soon. Hopefully they come in tomorrow.

[Meketrefe]

The nice thing about hornady is that they are cost effective. On average they give more for less. Good bullets for less means more practice. more practice means .... you know...

[BuellSix8]

For 6.8 I've been using Hornady 110gr HPBT and have had great success with them and that was the first rifle bullets I've reloaded with Hornady.

[Meketrefe]

I have tried more bullets and loads that I can remember and I came to this conclusion....

- Hornady have amazing value and huge assortment in any caliber and specially in popular calibers. Some match bullets win competitions so if they are good for them they are good for you.
- Nosler match burners value packs are also amaizing value. The nosler was set to be the service round for some military long range rounds but then politics and sierra got in the way. Some of the other hunting optinos are expensive but they work like clock works.
- Sierra - I like sierra but their prices (Quality vs. value) is not realistic anymore plus they are becoming arrogant.
- Berger - they are amazing. Some of these bullets can reach where others cannot.
- Lapua - like the brass they are super quality but there is more differnce in the brass vs. others than in the bullets where others can actually compete quality wise. In brass they cannot with this brand.
- Speer - Some great deals. Good workhorse loads for pistol and anything practical like hunting.
- Swift - Do you like caviar? Brutally overpriced.
- Winchester - Some decent bullets. The best bullets they do not even make them themselves. On average consistency is not there.
- Remington - They have a few decent ones the rest is garbage. can always rely on the corelokt though.
- Priv - Good pricess but not consistency

I could live the rest of my life with hornady and Nosler and a few speer only and do not need any other brands. Well aside from a few bergers and/or lapua for the long range work but one could even survive without those and do well.