Announcement

**BuellSix8** · 03-06-2016, 09:52 PM

For irons... I go with Troy back up sites specifically HK style front sites with tritium. If a lightweight build, REAL Magpul MBUS sites not the airsoft knockoffs.

For scopes, I keep them around 1x4, 3x9, 2x10. Why? I live in the HUDSON Valley and I use my rifles right here. There are no 400 yard ranges. Those power scopes are perfect weight for lugging around all day in the woods hunting or whatever. My Vortex Viper PST 1x4 is awesome for hunting under 150 yards. It also illuminates so dialed down awesome for CQB drills.

For red dots, I have Trijicon Reflex, Aimpoint PRO and Aimpoint T1 in which I have 100s of hours behind. I actually bought my reflex from Wildman years ago. I do have a Vortex Spitfire new in box that I have yet to mount on anything but the glass looks nice and dot is crisp but you never know until you spend time behind it.

In conclusion... I love it all. In order, Irons, Scope, red dot for me.

**WARFAB** · 03-06-2016, 10:26 PM

My eyes aren't bad, but I tend to lose the front sight post in the target black when I try to shoot a center hold. I have a lot more success shooting a 6:00 hold. Having targets that are appropriate for the distance helps too. The black should be roughly the same width as your front sight post when you look through the sights. For competition open sights shooting, a colored or fiber optic front sight will look different depending on lighting conditions and potentially reduce accuracy. I like my sights as black as I can get them. Any hint of metal reflection and they get hit with the sight black again.

Originally posted by Jimbo_79 View Post

Also, if I ever wanted to enter a shooting competition would my preferred setup prohibit me from entering?

Depends on the competition. Some service rifle competitions require as issued sights.

**thughes** · 03-07-2016, 08:35 AM

What Warfab said.....6:00 hold. Of course, that's in the context of shooting competition targets (black target on a white background).

In regards to iron sights and getting old (or your eyes suck): peeps are the way to go! I have a very difficult time with v-notch rears (cross-eye dominant, near-sighted and far-sighted with astigmatism) but do relatively well with a rear peep.

I like the red-dot on a carbine or tactical shotty but with the astigmatism it's more of a "cluster of fuzzy red dots" so I go with a rear peep and a high-viz front blade instead.

**Ham_Chu** · 03-07-2016, 08:04 PM

I never liked the 6:00 hold. The idea that my rifle was zeroed for 7 inches high at 200 yards never attracted me. POA = POI.

Military aperture Iron sights for me...preferably with a bent front sight post....

Red dot (Burris FastFire & Trij ReflexII) )is great for speed shooting. I REALLY like the new DMR style low power scopes (1-4X) with illuminated reticles. Would like to afford the Leupold CQB sight, but do like my Millet DMR. It what I am currently playing with, regarding the new CMP rules, WARFAB.

Favorite scope on hunting rifle is a Leupold fixed 6X M8 mildot, w/ turrets. Prefer fixed...less to go wrong and fiddle with.

REALLY like the SWFA Super Sniper scope in 10X (mildot, of course). Its on the roof of a 10/22 for our Rimfire Sniper competitions. They are GREAT quality and reasonably priced.

**harleyhutch** · 03-07-2016, 09:42 PM

I had Fire sights on my Marlin 45-70, orange fiber optic on the front and green two dot ghost ring with white outline on the rear. Had a large aperture for hunting, not target shooting, worked very well. Was offered good money for it so it's now in FL as a hog gun at an outfitter. Now I need to find a 1886 in 45-70.

**Jimbo_79** · 03-08-2016, 07:44 PM

What's a 6:00 hold? Awesome stuff that y'all have posted so far!

**Ham_Chu** · 03-08-2016, 08:58 PM

A 6 o'clock hold is a match shooter trick that gives you a better sight picture on match targets. B/c the match target is a circle, and is black....and your front sight post is black, it lacks contrast against the background of the bullseye. It is hard to PRECISELY define the tip of the front sight in the center of the bull, and you can 'wander' a bit. (if you use Point of Aim (POA) , or put your front sight at the center of bull, the point you want to hit) So....match shooters developed a way to trick the system. They will aim at the 6 o'clock position of the bull (bottom edge of circle), which is (on the 200yd target 6.5 inches below the center of bull). This way they can see the full shape of the circle, and then place their front sight at the precise bottom of the circle. The front sight is clearly defined by the white background of the target, beneath the bull.

You then re-zero the rifle so that the bullet strikes center, when aimed at the 6 o'clock position (6.5" high at 200yds-About a 300yard actual zero IIRC). It works well, as long as you do not use the rifle for any other purpose than shooting that match, at any other range.

There is also the sub-six hold, where shooters will aim just a bit below the 6 o'clock, so there is just the faintest trace of white between the sight and the bull, so they can REALLY tell when they are kissing the bull, b/c with a 6 o'clock, your front sight just might wander a bit north, and you not know it and pull the shot.

These are techniques used by those chasing points in a competition. It really can make a difference once your scores start climbing, and these methods also help when you are shooting in varying light conditions (the light can play trix on your sights, make the target look smaller/larger depending on the conditions), and they work well. I choose not to use them. I do not want to train a different style of shooting for matches than I do otherwise. also, I want my rifle to shoot where I aim it. Always.

(and that's why my Camp Perry scores are what they are...but they are getting better each year!)

**thughes** · 03-08-2016, 10:49 PM

...but now you can just drop the cross hairs on the X and blast away!

**WARFAB** · 03-09-2016, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Ham_Chu View Post

You then re-zero the rifle so that the bullet strikes center, when aimed at the 6 o'clock position (6.5" high at 200yds-About a 300yard actual zero IIRC). It works well, as long as you do not use the rifle for any other purpose than shooting that match, at any other range.

Official match targets have the black scaled proportionally so that it's the same number of MOA across at all distances. Because they're all the same number of MOA across, the sight adjustment for a 6:00 hold remains the same at all distances. A 200 yard zero with a 6:00 hold should hit the center at 300 and 600 with the appropriate elevation adjustment for the distance. Either way you you need to keep a good record of your elevation adjustments and environmental factors for each distance, so the mathematical/theoretical POA vs. POI isn't super critical.

There are all kinds of sight pictures you can use. Different things work for different people. The only way to know what will work for you is to try. I've talked to military marksmanship unit guys who shoot POA, 6:00, sub 6:00, flat tire, and inverted flat tire. Some guys use the NM front sight post that's supposed to be the same width as the target black. I talked to one guy who swears that the wider military issue front sight post works better for him.

Some AMU guidance on sight picture:

http://www.odcmp.org/0907/default.as...U_SIGHTPICTURE

For anyone who is interested in shooting at Camp Perry but doesn't have much competition experience, I'd highly recommend the AMU high power clinic and 'special' EIC match. Rifles and ammunition are provided and paid for by a very reasonable entry fee. There is basic classroom work before live fire practice with military marksmanship unit instructors. It's a great learning experience plus you get to shoot at a famous range that has lots of historical significance. If you can make the drive I'd highly recommend it. Since rifles and ammunition are provided, you can also bring friends along who might not shoot with you otherwise. The event attracts all skill levels so you don't have to worry about being the only newb there.

**Ham_Chu** · 03-09-2016, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by thughes View Post

...but now you can just drop the cross hairs on the X and blast away!

But only on an AR. every other rifle out there still needs to conform to 'as-issued' or "kinda looks like as-issued from 20 yards but has thousands of dollars of internal modifications and an army-style paint job" But they all had to have iron sights. The scopes were left to select NRA matches, or the CMP Vintage Sniper match...and that is a VERY short list of permitted glass.

I will say, after shooting a scoped (4X) AR at 200 on a SR target, its a joke. I feel confident that I could complete a rapid fire stage in 25 seconds with reload and keep EVERYTHING inside the nine. I cannot speak to ranges beyond that, nor the ease of adjustment between the 600/300/200 . A turret would be necessary (but someone WILL come out with the CAMP PERRY SPECIAL RETICLE that is already BDC'ed for those specific ranges).

**WARFAB** · 03-10-2016, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Ham_Chu View Post

I feel confident that I could complete a rapid fire stage in 25 seconds with reload and keep EVERYTHING inside the nine.

Only inside the nine? A joke would be inside the X.

Camp Perry sure will be interesting this year.

**Ham_Chu** · 03-10-2016, 05:01 PM

I was not even trying (and not that good). Held breath for each 5 round string and just blasted away. Next time I might give it a real go.
The real trick was getting scope out forward enuf. eye relief issues.

Announcement

Sights, Sights, Everywhere the Sights

Sights, Sights, Everywhere the Sights

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment