Buying a Scope - What is important and what not.

[Meketrefe]

I have some noob questions that I'm sure would help many...

What features should I get and what isn't needed for average user? Some have parallax adjustment and others don't, is that important?

Scopes are expensive should I go for better quality to use on multiple firearms or go less expensive and have one on each firearm?

​​​​​​Side note: another topic I would love to hear more about and learn is the shooter and spotter relationship and using a scope effectively. Sure a great scope is awesome but knowing how to use even a good scope properly is priceless .


Thank you Mek for sharing your expertise!

Q/A

We will answer this in detail in the process of explaining the scopes and how to use them but initially I want to address some of your questions
with some brief answers.
The parallax is very important. Having an adjustable focus might not be needed but it is important to know what you are buying and check for
other attributes based on ones needs. If you are going buck hunting lets say between 50 and 200 yards you don't need an adjustable focus nor
first focal plane but it doesn't mean that one could not take advantage of one to extend the range with authority and go for trickier shots with
confidence.

The investment on the scope has more to do with the use that one is expected from the firearm than the type of firearm. We normally restrict the
number of firearms that have for specialty use or critical duty. Those are the ones were the optics might need to be of better quality to match the
expectations of reliability and durability. For a lot of firearms we use for plinkin and range fun we do not need to invest a lot but it doesn't hurt to
know what to look for even in more modest equipment.

Also with the profilefartion of ARs and uppers one might go broke buying optics so it might be worth spending on a reliable quick detach system
and easily resetable turrets so the same optics could be used in different calibers between seasons for example.

The shooter / spotter relationship must be one of trust and patience. There are some pr-established methods that one can follow but in the end
if you spend time together one develops individual pointers and even a special way to communicate. I have to add that the role of the spotter is
not to simply trace trajectories and inform of impacts. The shooter should be aquiented with the ballistics and be as good or even better marksman
than the shooter so it can take a role in suggesting adjustments and be an active part of the practice. The shooter is there to work in partnership
and squeeze the trigger.

1/2 of the work is done by studying and planning and the other have is getting flight hours on the field AND TAKING NOTES.

We need to know how the scope works and why we should do this or that before we get on the field. If we are on the field and we don't know those basic
things, we are wasting time and ammo.

[Meketrefe]

WE need more people answering a few questions. Come on you! stop watching friends and follow up here!

1- What do you initially look for in new optics?
2- How do you use it?
3- If the scope didn't work out for you, what was the problem?
4- How much influence did a website or forum had in your decision?

[Meketrefe]

come on guys, I need some answers! ...SERENITY NOW!!!

1- What do you initially look for in new optics?
2- How do you use it?
3- If the scope didn't work out for you, what was the problem?
4- How much influence did a website or forum had in your decision?

A) What kind of shooting do you do? Past 200 yards, 300 ... 500, Small or large targets?
B) It is mostly bench shooting or you want something small, lighter and less intrusive?
C) Would you like to trace and identify the impacts w/o a side optic?

[BigJohnH]

1) MiL- Dot Reticle 2) for everything. 3) didn't have that problem. 4) none. A) 100 - 650 so far. B) I shoot target and hunt with same weapon. C) I don't use a side optic.

[TMC]

Please clarify side optic do you mean a spotter?
How would you trace and Identify the round with out a scope? In a scope you can do both but Personally I have never been able to do both consistently at the same time .
By changing focus in a spotting scope I have seen the vapor trail but not always the impact .I have seen the impact but not watched the round shooting using a scope.
How would you go about seeing both at the same time as firing the weapon consistently without a scope?

[Meketrefe]

I think a scope can be used to trace the bullets but one has to have enough FOV, enough time and other conditions to see the trace. If one is shooting a gun with a lot of recoil at short distances
you will not be able to see chit before you can refocus. Target scopes are great to see impact even in little targets and little calibers so no need to use a side optic with or without spotter. varmint is also a good exmple when shooting very small animals, target scopes are preferred. Also with good support and very little recoil one might stay on the target very easily. Something not possible lets say with a WM.

[Calculon]

come on guys, I need some answers! ...SERENITY NOW!!!

1- What do you initially look for in new optics?
2- How do you use it?
3- If the scope didn't work out for you, what was the problem?
4- How much influence did a website or forum had in your decision?

A) What kind of shooting do you do? Past 200 yards, 300 ... 500, Small or large targets?
B) It is mostly bench shooting or you want something small, lighter and less intrusive?
C) Would you like to trace and identify the impacts w/o a side optic?

Step away from the ledge! Think of your family and friends!

OK I'll play but I have limited experience with scopes- I guess I've been more of a red dot and iron sights guy who rarely (i.e. Never) shoots out beyond 100 yds. as you alluded to in your opening post it's likely that they're not installed properly as I can't seem to get them zeroed

I currently have 4 scopes but only 2 are mounted.
1) What I look for - clear glass, good reviews and value priced. Since I dont have anyplace to shoot further than 100yds I don't need to spend big $
2)How do I use it? Paper out to 100 yds
3) Difficulty zeroing
4) websites and reviews very influential in process.

BSA Sweet 22 on a Ruger 10/22.
Millet DMS on a 300 Blackout MSR ( has an illuminated donut reticle that I like)
Vortex Crossfire ll still in box. Don't remember what I bought it for but unused.
An unbranded variable power scope currently unmounted.

[Meketrefe]

Thanks!

Come on guys I need more feedback. This is helping.

[Cgrutt]

Mek thanks for starting this thread up it is awesome. I would add Trijicon Accupoint to your list they are sub $1000 with illuminated recitcle (fiber and tritium) and crystal clear. I'm sure you mentioned this but may have missed it, also discussion first/second focal plane and advantages/disadvantages of each.

To answer your questions I look for clarity and adjustable magnification above all else. Used exclusively on bench at paper targets. Failures due to guesstimating vs calculating while dialing in and not shooting enough post unSAFE Act. Heavily influenced by web you tube and forums.

[Meketrefe]

I see a lot of the same opinions and online / forums seem to have a huge influence on people when it comes to buy optics.
Keep in mind that retailers have a lot of optics out on display and while they might not be the same model perhaps one can see
through one of the same line of scopes even if it is with a different reticle. We will talk more about the process of decision making and
that is in part why we are writing this thread. But keep in mind that most people are having a hard time identifying their needs because
they have not been exposed to all the possibilities in the first place.If you were a marksman in WWII you got a x4 straight glass and
that is what everyone was getting. But then when you go do things from different situations where different practical applications are
needed then you start thinking 'it would be nice to do this', 'it would be nice to have that' but most importantly, WHY.
That is why education is so important but of course practice too.

We will talk a lot about the WHAT and the WHY before we get into the HOW. The how might be the easiest part.

BTW...I think it happens with many other things because that is the job of marketing to sell us things that we think we need but we really don't.

I am thinking to put the summary on a score card so one can apply it to buy scopes or even other equipment following
similar method.. ..just thinking... you know the raw mind....

[Meketrefe]

Parallax explained very well a video
http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/wh...cope-parallax/

There are several things wrong in this explanation.

First below 4-7 magnification and for many scopes and average ranges up to 200 the parallax is going to provide a very small deviation.
If the eye is right where the exit pupil then one should not see any issues. But the ocular piece will have to be adjusted thus this makes
the parallax a somewhat arbitrary because we all don't have the same eyes the same thing happens with the eye relief and "perceived" clarity.
In the real world when testing several scopes that look good wot the shooter the parallax variance might be as little as 1/2 inch at 300 yards
or 12 inches at the same distance. So the question is what magnification are they and how they are adjusted? He doesn't mention any of this.

Then when we see scopes with x3-12 or x4-14 without parallax then we need to question what is the distance at the edge of the exit pupile? Is this
something that can be compensated easily or will require changing the focus constantly or in this case it would make more sense a scope with
parallax adjustment and then adjust the focus piece at the ideal distance we want and normally will not have to fiddle with that so much.

So parallax probably is not an issue for the average joe to hunt a white tail where x7 magnification might be more than plenty and parallax
can be adjusted close to perfect with most scopes for the average ranges people normally shoot that rarely exceed 150 yards.

But in larger magnifications and long range it can in fact be a substantial variance.

The lucky gunner video is misleading. Typical situation when folks try to explain what they do not really understand. Or perhaps
they are trying to sell something like we see all over.

Like I said, 3/4 of the shooters and hunters have poor optics installation and/or improper use.

[TMC]

so what in you opinion is proper installation an use .we have yet to hear anything from you on those subjects yet you have commented on 2 videos I have posted to explain those topics yet you have not defended your position. Parallax was explained very well buy you have not explained it at all. .The Midway video explained very well installing a scope avoiding some very technical things that could be done if you were shooting Olympic class and you have not commented on what you feel is proper installation. For the average person this information was understandable.
Please define Parallax in a a scope and proper scope mounting

[Cgrutt]

Sorry TMC, I couldn't resist,

[Meketrefe]

It will be coming. I better make some pictures in order to explain otherwise it will be confusing. This is going to be a long thread.
I think he explains well in practical descriptive terms the effect but not the cause.
The parallax is something pretty arbitrary and variable and also there is a huge difference between scopes. 1" reference he mentions is wrong. These are facts.
As we review scopes we can make some tests. I will also talk about the proper mounting and sighting.
It takes time as I will be writing this vs. picking up links or cut and paste.
Sorry if I come like short. I appreciate any posts. I just was tired and didn't rub well that lucky gunner guy.
Nothing to do with anyone. Just my demeanor is kind of short sometimes. my fault.

[TMC]

I will be Very disappointed if at the end of this thread I am asked to buy a used car or invest in a freaking Time Share
but Ill wait cause I might not understand