US military switching cartridges

[blackpowdershooter30]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...t-replace-556/

The military is possibly switching to a harder hitting round which is great because neutralizing the enemy but a lot of preppers, militias and modern day minutemen are vested into the 5.56 round because it's NATO and in the form of a rebellion in the states I'd think the UN would be called in. Now the question is do we all buy a 6.8 caliber upper with the necessary ammo to have on standby or stick with the 5.56 x 45 round that is already ran??

[Meketrefe]

The best way to go for the military would be to put a 6mm bullet on the 6.8 case and presto!
Even almost the same 5.56 case 5 thusands wider and 43mm long necked up to 6mm will provide a 25%-30% gain in performance w/o doing anything else.
Almost same brass just 2-3 extra grains, same bolts, same magazines and a 85gr projectile.

[dwa12479]

If they do switch, I'm guessing there will be a TON of surplus 5.56 for sale...cheap.

[Meketrefe]

If they do switch, I'm guessing there will be a TON of surplus 5.56 for sale...cheap.

Yes but will sell fast just because it is so popular.
In any case it will not matter because most of the bulk inexpensive 5.56 is vietnam era M193 is not even service anymore but made in huge batches
for practice and civilian use.

[WARFAB]

A major transition won't happen overnight for all the branches. The firearm owning public and manufacturers will likely adapt along with the military. It's not like gun owners will get left behind.

[Norm DeGuerre]

Don't fukk around ..308

[dwa12479]

Don't fukk around ..308

They did that already with the M14. They dropped it mainly because of the cartridge weight. Soliders could carry far more 5.56 rounds.

[Norm DeGuerre]

Yep
and .308 still kill em dead
.223 is just entertainment

[blackpowdershooter30]

The hlwhole point is if you wound a guy you take three guys off the battlefield instead of just killing one

[Norm DeGuerre]

In Afgannistan they just leave them to meet allah

[Jester]

I’m with Norm: 223 keeps their heads down, 308 takes the heads off. 800 meters of excellence!!!!

[Meketrefe]

It all depends what "223" and what "308" for what purpose.
The 223 blackhills 77gr TMK is good up to 800 yards in soft targets and it shoots flatter than the 308 fmj.
Neither one will defeat body armor and certain hard barriers at those distances.

[Jester]

You are right Meke and we can run 90 grains out of a 20 inch pole and shoot MOA at 1000 yards. We are shooting some great rounds now like 6 BR and 6.5 Cr but why introduce them for SDM when if in need you can turn to your MG team and ask for a couple of rounds? Besides, the snipes should stay with the 300 WM which is a very usable man round and let the SDM’s run AR10’s

[Meketrefe]

The 308 loaded with solid VLD bullets can imitate the trajectories of the 6.5mm cartriges w/o doing anything else and using a 1:10 twist and will still put more monentum
on the target up to 1500 yards. This will be expensive with civilian bullets (CNC bullets) or perhaps then creating a specialty military solid 2 part bullet for that but because we have the 300 magnum and the mighty 338 we do not
screw around with the 308. Although the 300 magnum will benefit for this technology as well and will almost replicate the reach of the 338 lapua but with less momentum on
the target, obviously.

Bottom line they stick to the service ammo. The 5.56 is for mbr work, suppression and firepower and the 308 for heavier guns and certain antimaterial targets up to a level.
So there is no perfect round that will replace them both but if they go with a 6mm will be able to get some additional punch w/o sacrificing firepower (much weight of the combat load)
6mm is the perfect caliber for this. 6.8 is a substantial improvement but in the long run not as big as the 6mm out of hte same case/grains/volume. I mean, for infantry use.

Of course, there are many options but they are reserved to special forces, seals, blackops, secret service, and whoever else for very limited and selected applications.

[WARFAB]

800 meters
MOA at 1000 yards
VLDs at 1500 yards

It's nice to throw out these distances, but does everyone understand the level of marksmanship the average soldier is capable of? In the vast majority of cases, the cartridges aren't the limiting factor in the weapons system. The soldiers that have the marksmanship skills to push the limits of a 5.56 are probably going to be getting assigned to a weapon with a higher performance cartridge anyways.

[Meketrefe]

800 meters
MOA at 1000 yards
VLDs at 1500 yards

It's nice to throw out these distances, but does everyone understand the level of marksmanship the average soldier is capable of? In the vast majority of cases, the cartridges aren't the limiting factor in the weapons system. The soldiers that have the marksmanship skills to push the limits of a 5.56 are probably going to be getting assigned to a weapon with a higher performance cartridge anyways.

An infantry soldier should be able to consistently hit a torso size target at 500 meters.
In the service I had to qualify for 500 meters as part of my basic training. Later I did a TA certification for support with a 7.62x51 gas gun. 800 meters.
Beyond 500 meters is more a role of a squad special role like a designated marksman. Those should be able to address longer distances but when
we talk about 800 yards and beyond that is something that requires both the right equipment and the training.
That is the domain of another specialized role that can be part of the squad or another team all together.
With that said, one can make contact in pretty reduced target areas at 800 or 1000 yards any time by following the tracers and guidance from spotter/s but
that is a different story.

But bottom line, you are right, real life and forum chitchat are two different worlds. Most folks talk about rounds and equipment w/o having one single discussion
about the monumental amount of practice and training it takes to be effective. Training is more important than anything yet rarely considered in discussions.

[thughes]

Wow, I didn't realize the Mexican Army had such tough qualification requirements. ;-)

[WARFAB]

An infantry soldier should be able to consistently hit a torso size target at 500 meters.

I wasn't in the military, so my impressions of the marksmanship skills of an average infantryman are based upon what I've read in discussions/articles from the instructors in marksmanship units in forums and blog posts. Different branches have different standards, but for the army, I don't think 500 meters with an M4 is going to be a consistent event at this point. Could be wrong.

Perhaps some of the guys with military backgrounds would argue otherwise.